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  1. #1
    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    Default Boxing and Building Muscle

    I will start off by admitting that I am in pain right now. My whole body has DOMS. Here is why:
    My gym has a group class that starts at ~5:30 everyday and it is held in the same studio that has the heavy bag, speed bag, and room for pad training with my trainer. By the time I get to the gym to workout its already 4:30. So my workout lasts ~1 hour leaving me no time to get in there before the group class. Now I know that cardio before weight training depletes your glycogen stores causing you to not have the best workout. What do you think I should do? Right now I'm on the last 4 weeks of Dave's V.I.F. which is 3 fullbody workouts per week. Mon-Wed-Fri. After this I am going to Dougs 4DS. How many times a week should I train with the boxing and will It be detremental to my building?
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    M&S Power User bucko91's Avatar
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    Alright mate in the on season i box 3-4 times a week whilst maintaining 3 days a week for weightlifting in teh off season which is now for me i go 4 days a week gym and unless your calories are perfect expect it to be a pain in the ass to build muscle and expect to be dropping weight if the training is pretty intense but when your body adapts to the changes its put under things will become eaiser DOMS wont be as bad things get better weight loss slows down and in some cases can find yourself going up a few lbs here and there not much tho

    As it stands what days do you do the boxing class and gym etc and hows your body feeling from it ?how many calories P/C/F ratio u on?
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    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    Thanks for the quick response bucko. I've just started the boxing training for abuot a month now. Im on a 50/30/20 C/P/F split. I need 3,682 calories to build muscle but usually get around 3,800 in every day or more. The thing is I arrive earlier to the gym before my partner so I use that time to train. I do something similar to the workout that Mike posted up as far as speed bag and heavy bag training goes and I highly doubt what I do is nearly as intense as what someone like you would do. My trainer has me hit the pads for 3 minute intervals working on various combinations, footwork, and defense. I do that twice a week. I was planning on designating Saturday (supposed to be another rest day) to just go in and focus on the boxing for an hour or two. I suppose the DOMS are crazy because I just started the full body 3x per week part of the workout and the boxing at the same time. My trainer said that there's two things about me that he loves already, I hit hard whilst maintaining control, and I have great shoulder endurance. Now I have to acquire more skills. The only thing I am complaining about is the amount of leg work required to throw hands. I was and still am shocked at that.
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    Got alot of work to do, Need some Ginkgo Biloba for muscle memory LOL

  4. #4
    Will rep for Zyzz posts TBtaylor52's Avatar
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    Sounds pretty crazy to me.. Are you still putting on weight since you started the boxing? OFF TOPIC: This really makes me want to play the new fight night game coming out because I just seen a preview..
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    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBtaylor52 View Post
    Sounds pretty crazy to me.. Are you still putting on weight since you started the boxing? OFF TOPIC: This really makes me want to play the new fight night game coming out because I just seen a preview..
    I've gained a pound still. Plus Fight Night Round 4 is a MUST get since I bought Round 3 since the day it came out and I still play it. No one I know has ever beaten me. I played online and managed a 21-6 record. I am pre-ordering Round 4
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  6. #6
    Will rep for Zyzz posts TBtaylor52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulezCesarFYC View Post
    I've gained a pound still. Plus Fight Night Round 4 is a MUST get since I bought Round 3 since the day it came out and I still play it. No one I know has ever beaten me. I played online and managed a 21-6 record. I am pre-ordering Round 4
    Have you seen the previews?! Especially the Tyson Vs. Ali won. I was literally like
    RIP Zyzz 03/24/1989 08/06/2011. Veni Vidi Vici. Son of Zeus. Brother of Hercules. Father of Aesthetics.
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    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBtaylor52 View Post
    Have you seen the previews?! Especially the Tyson Vs. Ali won. I was literally like
    The inside fighting is going to be off the chains! I got so good at Round 3 I mastered total punch control and managed to perfect the one hit daze and can knock anyone out 2 seconds after the bell sounds. lol
    The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. - Socrates
    Got alot of work to do, Need some Ginkgo Biloba for muscle memory LOL

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    M&S Senior Member iforwms's Avatar
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    Lol, just get that good in the real ring and you'll make your millions!!
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    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iforwms View Post
    Lol, just get that good in the real ring and you'll make your millions!!
    I'm laying off of the running for now in hopes of building more muscle, but in my cutting stages I will work on my stamina. I'm going to see how far this beginners training goes before I decide to join a real boxing club.
    The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. - Socrates
    Got alot of work to do, Need some Ginkgo Biloba for muscle memory LOL

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    M&S Senior Member iforwms's Avatar
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    Just be careful not to pick up bad habits and bad technique. You don't want to get to a proper boxing gym and have to relearn everything again! Good luck mate!

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    M&S Power User bucko91's Avatar
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    New fight night round 4 game just saw the physics video wow fight night round 3 think i had about 90-18-0 record check it out on Live my account is same as my username on here....

    Julez the amount of leg work in boxing is alot why in my gym we did a hell of alot of sqwuat thrusts, Burpeejumps,Split jumps, Skipping , Shadowboxing

    Ive highlighted shadow boxing there because since your new your trainer can teach you so much on the pads teh rest u need a mirror and to concentrate on what your feet are doing never mind throwing combos in teh mirror learn to throw single shots perfectly imagine the fella in the mirror is ur opponent and ur trying to hit hime right on the end of his nose every time so make sure your punches arnt dropping and are head height but make sure your feet and in the right place before you throw make sure your well balanced knees are slightly bent and you get a good rotation from your hips upwards and took your chin into your shoulders with the punches ..

    Regarding the bag work you do is the class you do basically a do whatever you want with the boxing equipment but then the trainer calls you all in turn for a 3 minute round on the pads?

    how are you feeling with regards to your diet and training? are you feeling that you have enough energy to last the workout without feeling dizzy from over exertion? how many hours a night do you sleep ?
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    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    90-18!! Thats X Box Right? After I moved I never went back online .
    I will work on the shadowboxing. That sounds like it ought to be fun. Just simple jabs and try to make them more stiff correct?
    The bag work he watches what I do first then corrects me. I remember when I first started with the speed bag he gave me a good slap in the back of my noggin because I had the speed bag at chest level. lol. Then he showed me that it was to keep my shoulders up and practice transferring my weight. 30 punches left hand, 30 punches right hand, then switch. Im still at a relatively slow pace (let it bounce about 3-4 times). As far as the heavy bag goes, Its 2-3 minutes jabs, 60 sec rest, 2-3 minutes hooks, 60 second rests, and 2-3 minutes free combo. On the last one I'm mostly working on left jab, right jab, left hook. My left sucks. I've been practicing on my stance because I learned to fight southpaw in the streets and he has been teaching me how to switch my stance up. The 3 minute rounds on the pads he does with me, another guy, and a girl (she's a monster!!). He never gets tired- his endurance is crazy- I've never seen anything like it before.
    I felt dizzy as hell yesterday but still completed my workout. I trained for like 30 minuted before my partner came. He did about 75 jumping jacks with me and a few pushups by himself and was falling asleep during the workout I dont see why cause he wasn't punching anything and he said he was more drained than me?! lol anywho, I sleep about 6-7 hours a night. And I feel I can up my calories more to make up for the energy lost during the boxing. How many times a week should I do the training? Edit: and how many more calories should I ingest?
    Last edited by JulezCesarFYC; 04-07-2009 at 11:35 AM.
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  13. #13
    M&S Senior Member iforwms's Avatar
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    Do you train orthodox as well as southpaw? It's a really useful skill to have to be able to switch during a round, and easiest to pick up when you're starting out.

    Try some of these for your 'free combo', front jab-front hook; front jab-front uppercut-front hook; front jab-back upper-front hook; back hand x2-front hook.

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    M&S Power User bucko91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulezCesarFYC View Post
    90-18!! Thats X Box Right? After I moved I never went back online .
    I will work on the shadowboxing. That sounds like it ought to be fun. Just simple jabs and try to make them more stiff correct?
    The bag work he watches what I do first then corrects me. I remember when I first started with the speed bag he gave me a good slap in the back of my noggin because I had the speed bag at chest level. lol. Then he showed me that it was to keep my shoulders up and practice transferring my weight. 30 punches left hand, 30 punches right hand, then switch. Im still at a relatively slow pace (let it bounce about 3-4 times). As far as the heavy bag goes, Its 2-3 minutes jabs, 60 sec rest, 2-3 minutes hooks, 60 second rests, and 2-3 minutes free combo. On the last one I'm mostly working on left jab, right jab, left hook. My left sucks. I've been practicing on my stance because I learned to fight southpaw in the streets and he has been teaching me how to switch my stance up. The 3 minute rounds on the pads he does with me, another guy, and a girl (she's a monster!!). He never gets tired- his endurance is crazy- I've never seen anything like it before.
    I felt dizzy as hell yesterday but still completed my workout. I trained for like 30 minuted before my partner came. He did about 75 jumping jacks with me and a few pushups by himself and was falling asleep during the workout I dont see why cause he wasn't punching anything and he said he was more drained than me?! lol anywho, I sleep about 6-7 hours a night. And I feel I can up my calories more to make up for the energy lost during the boxing. How many times a week should I do the training?
    If you are mainly right handed i would probly switch to being orthadox to be honest makes things alot eaiser in the long run when punches are coming at you hard having your back hand strongest is a plus

    On shadow boxing yeh make sure your jab is nice and straight and direct dont be throwing punches at the speed of light nice and controlled everything when in the mirrors should be controlled far too many times i see people in the mirrors just going all guns blazing throwing punches incorectly just to try and look good but the name of the game isnt to do that its to correct any mistakes you see in the mirror that an opponent would see in you so in theory your gaurd tightens you begin to notice if you do something good or bad

    Personally on the heavy bag routine i wouldnt do 2-3 minutes of solid jabs 2-3 minutes of hooks then 2-3 minutes of combos its not practical for in a boxing situation.
    You should be just mixing it up pumping the jab letting punches come freely of the jab cos if your just doing set rounds for set punches then when/if u spar youll be like a robot and will be pretty easy to see what punch is coming if you do that for the sake of learning the punches dont u learn the punch technique of the trainer and from self preparation in the mirrors

    Iforms some ok combos there but id advice you to stick with whatever combos your trainer tells you to do cos only he can judge what your ready to do and what combos will suit your style for you to get maximal results and not be counterd such as for my first 2 months in boxing i never threw an uppercut and got shouted at if i did as they wanted me to first realise my potential with long punches jabs and crosses then when i started sparring they brought in other combos so i could learn to keep people off me then how to fight inside as a last resort or if against someone taller

    Id say 3 times a week no more to be honest we do 4 days but one day we dont hit bags we do all technique work and light sparring which gets stopped all the time self anlysis etc where did you go wrong what could you have done better .. 3 times a week should be suffice for you for now when youve fully adapted to 3 days a week and if that becomes easy your not working hard enough in those 3 sessions.. If you became dizzy which is horribly annoying ive had it plenty of times a few of those ended up with me vomiting id say up the complex carbs before training give yourself a good 2 hours time to digest all the food drink PLENTY of water before the training and only drink very small amounts through the training dont want nothing jiggling about in the stomach while training
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    M&S Senior Member iforwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucko91 View Post
    Iforms some ok combos there but id advice you to stick with whatever combos your trainer tells you to do cos only he can judge what your ready to do and what combos will suit your style for you to get maximal results and not be counterd such as for my first 2 months in boxing i never threw an uppercut and got shouted at if i did as they wanted me to first realise my potential with long punches jabs and crosses then when i started sparring they brought in other combos so i could learn to keep people off me then how to fight inside as a last resort or if against someone taller
    Fair point there bucko!

    As for the combos, they're straight from Brendan Ingle's book of tricks, seemed to work well enough for Naseem, Witter and Clinton Woods!
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    M&S Power User bucko91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iforwms View Post
    Fair point there bucko!

    As for the combos, they're straight from Brendan Ingle's book of tricks, seemed to work well enough for Naseem, Witter and Clinton Woods!
    There all top proffesionals well not so much woods he blows every big fight he gets and witter lost his chance of world fame and chance of a shot at hatton by losing to bradly (whos just beaten ken holt) so combos like that are easier for them as they will no when to throw them and not leave themselves open for counter and will have the technique to link the punches fluidly good combos but for more advanced fighters not so much the front hand jab left hook like but the longer ones yes
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    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iforwms View Post
    Do you train orthodox as well as southpaw? It's a really useful skill to have to be able to switch during a round, and easiest to pick up when you're starting out.

    Try some of these for your 'free combo', front jab-front hook; front jab-front uppercut-front hook; front jab-back upper-front hook; back hand x2-front hook.

    -Ifor
    Yes that's what I'm working on right now. I'm practicing both styles to be able to defend myself more adequately and to throw off the opponent. Those combos look hard as hell. One of these days. I still don't think Im ready to tackle cobos like that yet. But I will refer to that post in the future when my skills develop. I'm treating this like lifting- form and patience before anything.
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    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucko91 View Post
    If you are mainly right handed i would probly switch to being orthadox to be honest makes things alot eaiser in the long run when punches are coming at you hard having your back hand strongest is a plus

    [B]Im already used to southpaw- I jump straight into that stance out of instinct, but I am working on orthodox also. I understand what you mean by having the strong back hand as a savior in that aspect though./B]

    On shadow boxing yeh make sure your jab is nice and straight and direct dont be throwing punches at the speed of light nice and controlled everything when in the mirrors should be controlled far too many times i see people in the mirrors just going all guns blazing throwing punches incorectly just to try and look good but the name of the game isnt to do that its to correct any mistakes you see in the mirror that an opponent would see in you so in theory your gaurd tightens you begin to notice if you do something good or bad

    Personally on the heavy bag routine i wouldnt do 2-3 minutes of solid jabs 2-3 minutes of hooks then 2-3 minutes of combos its not practical for in a boxing situation.
    You should be just mixing it up pumping the jab letting punches come freely of the jab cos if your just doing set rounds for set punches then when/if u spar youll be like a robot and will be pretty easy to see what punch is coming if you do that for the sake of learning the punches dont u learn the punch technique of the trainer and from self preparation in the mirrors

    Thanks I will do that. 2-3 min x 3 free for all basic combinations.

    Iforms some ok combos there but id advice you to stick with whatever combos your trainer tells you to do cos only he can judge what your ready to do and what combos will suit your style for you to get maximal results and not be counterd such as for my first 2 months in boxing i never threw an uppercut and got shouted at if i did as they wanted me to first realise my potential with long punches jabs and crosses then when i started sparring they brought in other combos so i could learn to keep people off me then how to fight inside as a last resort or if against someone taller

    I'm 6'0 with long arms so i have a bit of a reach so that's one plus. I'm going to speak to my trainer and see what he says on this note.

    Id say 3 times a week no more to be honest we do 4 days but one day we dont hit bags we do all technique work and light sparring which gets stopped all the time self anlysis etc where did you go wrong what could you have done better .. 3 times a week should be suffice for you for now when youve fully adapted to 3 days a week and if that becomes easy your not working hard enough in those 3 sessions.. If you became dizzy which is horribly annoying ive had it plenty of times a few of those ended up with me vomiting id say up the complex carbs before training give yourself a good 2 hours time to digest all the food drink PLENTY of water before the training and only drink very small amounts through the training dont want nothing jiggling about in the stomach while training
    I think the reason I felt so dizzy yesterday was because my diet was jacked up! I got a surprise call to Manhattan for a drug test by my job and it messed my diet up something crazy for the meals before my workout. All I had before I worked out was a 2 slices of whole wheat with chicken and some mangos. Not my usual pre-workout meal. Tomorrow I'll experiment again and see if it works out. And I will continue to keep upping the intensity (and the calories lol). Thanks bucko!
    The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. - Socrates
    Got alot of work to do, Need some Ginkgo Biloba for muscle memory LOL

  19. #19
    M&S Power User bucko91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulezCesarFYC View Post
    I think the reason I felt so dizzy yesterday was because my diet was jacked up! I got a surprise call to Manhattan for a drug test by my job and it messed my diet up something crazy for the meals before my workout. All I had before I worked out was a 2 slices of whole wheat with chicken and some mangos. Not my usual pre-workout meal. Tomorrow I'll experiment again and see if it works out. And I will continue to keep upping the intensity (and the calories lol). Thanks bucko!
    No problems mate keep us posted on how it goes tommrow and what your trainer says.
    6'0 so ur the same height as me
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    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucko91 View Post
    No problems mate keep us posted on how it goes tommrow and what your trainer says.
    6'0 so ur the same height as me
    UPDATE:

    Well Tuesday; I was practicing the shadowboxing with controlled movements Right to the nose everytime. Nothing crazy- just simple punching working on my body roatation, stance, and sharpness, and returning quickly back to protect my face; and noticed I have HUGE improvements to do with my left arm. So i did it for 20 minutes to work on my shoulder endurance. Now yesterday I met with my trainer and was working on the heavy bag before he got there- nothing major simple combos like before just keeping the bag away with simple jabs and following up with hooks- back to protect my face- Same old. On to the pads. We started out simple left jab right jab etc. So he goes "WHOA!! Somebody's been practicing somewhere!!!" That made me feel good. lol- Then he switched it up on me- Right uppercut, Right hook, left jab. OUCH! He made me do it like 50 times. I thought i was going to pass out. lol. He said I did "Excellent" which is alot coming from him- Now back to bag training- He said " I noticed you have a situation with your left shoulder there- It cant keep up". I keep dropping my left leaving the left side of my face open. So he made me push the heavy bag up and made me keep jabbing it while keeping the bag suspended. I thought my shoulders were in hell. Anybody else know anything I can do to work more on my shoulder endurance. Its already good- but whats wrong with making it better? Im going to speak to him about the combos that iforwms suggested tomorrow.
    The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. - Socrates
    Got alot of work to do, Need some Ginkgo Biloba for muscle memory LOL

  21. #21
    M&S Power User bucko91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulezCesarFYC View Post
    UPDATE:

    Well Tuesday; I was practicing the shadowboxing with controlled movements Right to the nose everytime. Nothing crazy- just simple punching working on my body roatation, stance, and sharpness, and returning quickly back to protect my face; and noticed I have HUGE improvements to do with my left arm. So i did it for 20 minutes to work on my shoulder endurance. Now yesterday I met with my trainer and was working on the heavy bag before he got there- nothing major simple combos like before just keeping the bag away with simple jabs and following up with hooks- back to protect my face- Same old. On to the pads. We started out simple left jab right jab etc. So he goes "WHOA!! Somebody's been practicing somewhere!!!" That made me feel good. lol- Then he switched it up on me- Right uppercut, Right hook, left jab. OUCH! He made me do it like 50 times. I thought i was going to pass out. lol. He said I did "Excellent" which is alot coming from him- Now back to bag training- He said " I noticed you have a situation with your left shoulder there- It cant keep up". I keep dropping my left leaving the left side of my face open. So he made me push the heavy bag up and made me keep jabbing it while keeping the bag suspended. I thought my shoulders were in hell. Anybody else know anything I can do to work more on my shoulder endurance. Its already good- but whats wrong with making it better? Im going to speak to him about the combos that iforwms suggested tomorrow.

    Keep It up !

    it wont be your shoulder endurance at this point it will be force of habit of not having to hold your hands up for now i advice when shadowboxing pay attention to keeping your chin tucked into your left shoulder(orthadox stance) and even maybe giving southpaw a rest for a month until youve got orthadox feeling pretty natural other than that when performing weight training turn to endurance reps around 20reps slightly lighter weight etc it will all come dont rush things oh and skipping with a heavy rope will get some more endurance if you really do need it ..

    by what uve said your height etc seems pretty similar to me so u might find some glory with these combos:
    (From Orthadox)
    jab. jab. cross
    jab, jab, cross, left hook,Cross
    Right uppercut, Left hook,Cross
    Right uppercut, Left hook, right uppercut
    jab, cross(1,2) step to your right side cross again
    cross Left hook jab jab

    These are some combos but at the end of the day combos shouldnt be moves that are set in stone in a ring you shouldnt have to really think what combo to throw if you see an opening you go with it and see what punches you can land only pre set combos in your mind if you believe you can set a trap that the person will fall into to allow you to get that combo off
    96 Never Forgotten
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    M&S Senior Member iforwms's Avatar
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    If it turns out that it is an endurance problem, then the speedbag is your friend. 20 minutes on that and your shoulders will be burning -a lot! (Provided that your elbows are the same height as your shoulders that is!)

    Congrats on the improvement, keep it up!

    -Ifor
    -Ifor

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    M&S Power User bucko91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iforwms View Post
    If it turns out that it is an endurance problem, then the speedbag is your friend. 20 minutes on that and your shoulders will be burning -a lot! (Provided that your elbows are the same height as your shoulders that is!)

    Congrats on the improvement, keep it up!

    -Ifor
    Alrite mate just had a look at your youtube account and a few of your videos first of nice singing what made you do toxic by britney spears ? other than that speedball technique is pretty decent im not a big fan of using elbows on it though, yeh people who are good with a speedball can make it look good but it has not practical use but for someone who hasnt been using a speed ball for too long you look pretty good on it
    Also see youve had a little go with the kettlebell you going to be uploading your full routine with it on youtube?
    96 Never Forgotten
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    M&S Senior Member iforwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucko91 View Post
    Alrite mate just had a look at your youtube account and a few of your videos first of nice singing what made you do toxic by britney spears ? other than that speedball technique is pretty decent im not a big fan of using elbows on it though, yeh people who are good with a speedball can make it look good but it has not practical use but for someone who hasnt been using a speed ball for too long you look pretty good on it
    Also see youve had a little go with the kettlebell you going to be uploading your full routine with it on youtube?
    Cheers mate, not sure bout Toxic, always good when it comes on in the clubs!

    Yeah, just wanted to make sure my technique was half decent before I started a proper workout. Not working out for another few hours, so instead of doing uni work I put them up, to get some tips. Got a few things I need to work on already!

    Tonight I'll be doing wall squats and halos to warm up. After that I'll do 12 mins swings alternating with a light jog (for recovery), then turkish get ups, alternating hands for 5 mins. Reckon that will be enough for today!
    -Ifor

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    Seasoned M&S Veteran JulezCesarFYC's Avatar
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    Thanks again for the info guys! I'll keep you updated...
    P.S. I wish I could see the youtube videos!
    Whats with the Brittney Spears??!!! lol

    Edit: I'm still building- Will Building reps affect my endurance? Will I not gain muscle in my shoulders and arms because of boxing?
    The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. - Socrates
    Got alot of work to do, Need some Ginkgo Biloba for muscle memory LOL

 

 

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