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  1. #26
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    Hey guys, this is my first post on M&S so I thought I would give some background.

    My names Steve, I'm a twenty year old college student. I am currently in the process of losing weight and gaining strength/muscle. I started last october around 255lbs, currently I am 209lbs.

    I am going to finish my current routine with this friday and start dougs 4 day split next Monday. Currently I am doing Mark Rippletoes Starting Strength. I love the routine, have seen great strength increases and noticeable muscle increases however the work out if to hard to try and do along with HIIT. Since my focus is to lose weight still I decided to try a new lift routine and keep the HIIT.

    The only things I would like to change with this routine, and could use some advice with are:

    MONDAYS:
    Smith Machine Shoulder Press - I plan to replace this with SOHP, a lift I have fallen in love with.
    Dumbbell Reverse Fly - I could use some ideas on what to change this out for, I just dislike this lift greatly.

    FRIDAYS:
    Leg Extensions - I just think I am going to remove this, I'm not worried about my Quadriceps to be honest
    SLDL - for regular DL


    I know its not normally ideal to change up routines alot, however want to be comfortable with what I am doing.

    I am going to miss squating three times a week

  2. #27
    The Strategist Frankoman's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum!

    Two things - One, this routine is designed for bulking and gaining muscle, while you said your goal is to cut. Technically you can still cut with this routine, but we have workouts specifically designed for retaining muscle mass while losing weight.

    Secondly, whether you care about your legs or not, it is still very important to work them to it's fullest! The legs are one of the most important parts of any workout. It helps you grow or cut more efficiently and rapidly as well as keeping you from looking top heavy. I'd do the designated about of lifts.

    Also, you're replacing the main hamstring workout by removing Stiff Leg Deadlifts which might not be a good idea.


    Then. try doing reverse flies with a much lighter weight and focus on form. View the video here or videos on youtube and get your form down. It is a very effective exercise that shouldn't be skipped.

    Other then that, Good luck!
    "If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing properly."

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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankoman View Post
    Welcome to the forum!

    Two things - One, this routine is designed for bulking and gaining muscle, while you said your goal is to cut. Technically you can still cut with this routine, but we have workouts specifically designed for retaining muscle mass while losing weight.

    Secondly, whether you care about your legs or not, it is still very important to work them to it's fullest! The legs are one of the most important parts of any workout. It helps you grow or cut more efficiently and rapidly as well as keeping you from looking top heavy. I'd do the designated about of lifts.

    Also, you're replacing the main hamstring workout by removing Stiff Leg Deadlifts which might not be a good idea.


    Then. try doing reverse flies with a much lighter weight and focus on form. View the video here or videos on youtube and get your form down. It is a very effective exercise that shouldn't be skipped.

    Other then that, Good luck!
    Thanks for the comment,

    Coming from SS I have never really worried about being top heavy :|

    I think I'll check some more of the routines out, more so the cutting ones and do one of those until I reach my goal weight of 190.

  4. #29
    M&S Elite Member SIASY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario2622 View Post
    I this workout, Dumbell shrug is placed in the shoulders, but isnt it for trapezes?
    Yes it is a Traps exercise, people class Delts & Traps as shoulders. lol
    Eat hard, Train hard, Rest, Grow

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  5. #30
    M&S Senior Member nitrokiller123's Avatar
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    Hey Guys, Do lat pulls effectively do the same was wide grip pullups?? Thats what Ive been doing to replace those because I cant do any pull ups lol
    21 yrs old
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  6. #31
    The Strategist Frankoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrokiller123 View Post
    Hey Guys, Do lat pulls effectively do the same was wide grip pullups?? Thats what Ive been doing to replace those because I cant do any pull ups lol

    Lat Pulldown will always increase your pullup ability. In a pullup, you pull your body weight up. Lat Pulldown is essentially a pullup but with controlled amount of weight. So if you can do your body weight in lat pulldown, then you can do a pullup!

    Though you could also try doing negatives as well as assisted pullups if possible. Though Negatives are said to be a bit better. To do a proper negative, jump up, hold yourself up for a little bit and as slow as possible go down until fully extended, and repeat.
    "If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing properly."

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  7. #32
    Coming Up The Ranks JiggedyJoeMoe's Avatar
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    I have used Dougs 4 day for about 12 weeks. I made huge gains in my back and shoulders (while there was some, not as much in my chest.

    It was great though when a trainer came up to me and said, "ya know, I had a couple clients ask who was working with you because of the changes you have made over the last couple months!" Yeah that felt pretty good!

    By the way, what was the next routine most of you moved on to after Doug's notorious 4 day. Next week I am taking off, then thinking about trying 10 week mass builder!
    28 years old // 5'8'' // 165 lbs. // BF 10% Bulking

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  8. #33
    Moderator Scrutiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrokiller123 View Post
    Being probably the most popular workout in here, and the one Im currently working on, I think it would be cool if we can all discuss it here! I think alot of new people come here looking to get bigger and looking for a reliable workout, and I think this one is pretty much flawless.

    I am currently on my 4th weeks and have gained about 5-6 lbs, I am very happy with the results so far and plan to do it for 8 weeks and switch into something different for another 8 weeks.

    What have your gains been so far and how long have you been on Doug's 4DS?? Also, If you are a Doug's 4DS veteran (lol) what were your experiences with it?

    Of course, thanks to Doug for such an awesome workout. I love it so far

    Discuss away!!!
    I have used it, i liked it.
    Few things i did like and a few things i did not like.
    But i would recommend it.
    Consistency is the key

  9. #34
    Regular Poster Warno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrutiny View Post
    I have used it, i liked it.
    Few things i did like and a few things i did not like.
    But i would recommend it.
    What did you like?
    What didn't you like?

  10. #35
    Moderator Scrutiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warno View Post
    What did you like?
    What didn't you like?
    I liked the amount of sets per muscle group, and the exercises chosen for each muscle group.

    One thing i did not really like was the way the days were layed out, You work your back on tuesday with a big range of exercises and 48hrs later you are working biceps.
    Consistency is the key

  11. #36
    Regular Poster Warno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrutiny View Post
    I liked the amount of sets per muscle group, and the exercises chosen for each muscle group.

    One thing i did not really like was the way the days were layed out, You work your back on tuesday with a big range of exercises and 48hrs later you are working biceps.

    Yeah this was my first week doing it but I did legs today(thurs) instead of tomorrow because of the soreness in my biceps.

    Although the soreness could have been because I took three weeks away from the gym, so hopefully by next week or the week after I won't have the same soreness.

  12. #37
    Coming Up The Ranks JiggedyJoeMoe's Avatar
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    I used the same routine but I switched to Mon-chest/bi, Tues-legs, Thurs-shoulder/tri, and Fri-Back
    Worked VERY well for me!
    28 years old // 5'8'' // 165 lbs. // BF 10% Bulking

    The most intelligent man realizes his wisdom is severely shadowed by his own ignorance.

  13. #38
    M&S Senior Member nitrokiller123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankoman View Post
    Lat Pulldown will always increase your pullup ability. In a pullup, you pull your body weight up. Lat Pulldown is essentially a pullup but with controlled amount of weight. So if you can do your body weight in lat pulldown, then you can do a pullup!

    Though you could also try doing negatives as well as assisted pullups if possible. Though Negatives are said to be a bit better. To do a proper negative, jump up, hold yourself up for a little bit and as slow as possible go down until fully extended, and repeat.
    I did a few negatives at the end of my workout on tuesday to see how it went, I was able to do a few only though, and I will continue to add to the lat pull every week until I get closer to my body weight. I dont have access to assited pullup machine that would be awesome.
    21 yrs old
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    Goal: 180 lbs, 12%BF

  14. #39
    M&S Senior Member nitrokiller123's Avatar
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    hey should I go for 8 or 12 weeks? whats recommended?
    21 yrs old
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  15. #40
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    Do you do your max through each set in this workout? looks like the pyramid workout to me

  16. #41
    NOT ripped, NOT concerned LtL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrokiller123 View Post
    hey should I go for 8 or 12 weeks? whats recommended?
    I'd go for 8 weeks and then change to something new.

    LtL

  17. #42
    NOT ripped, NOT concerned LtL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizouse View Post
    Do you do your max through each set in this workout? looks like the pyramid workout to me
    The weight should go up with each set. EG:

    12 x 200lb's, 10 x 205lb's, 8 x 210, 6 x 215lb's

    LtL

  18. #43
    M&S Senior Member nitrokiller123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingtolive View Post
    I'd go for 8 weeks and then change to something new.

    LtL
    okay, today begins week 5 for me, so maybe I should start looking for my next workout in a week or two. I also plan to maybe take a week off.
    21 yrs old
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  19. #44
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingtolive View Post
    I'd go for 8 weeks and then change to something new.

    LtL
    Hi, have you heard the saying "If its not broken then dont fix it" same applies to a training routine, stick with it until your weights or reps arent going up, no matter how hard your try (diet and recovery dependant) and only then change the routine, no point changing it if your making gains from it..
    Doug

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  20. #45
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizouse View Post
    Do you do your max through each set in this workout? looks like the pyramid workout to me
    Use whatever weight you can to obtain the given number of reps, so if you can go up in the weight then go up, if you have to drop the weight in the following sets then drop the weight, if you use the same weight for all the sets then thats fine, but make sure that on each set you wouldnt be able to complete more reps than what is stated in the routine, if you could then the weight is too light
    Doug

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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme666 View Post
    I used D4DS as a base to make my own workout.. There are some parts I like, and others that I dont like about D4DS.. Not a fan of smith machine work.

    Q : Why does this workout call for smith machine shoulder press? I tried these and I added 30 pounds to what I would use for military press.. and it felt easier.
    On the 4 day split are you suppose to do your max on every set?

  22. #47
    M&S Senior Member nitrokiller123's Avatar
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    you are supposed to do the 12,10,8,6 sets so that you cant do any more reps per set, thats how you know the weight you are using is you "max" for that set, I hope thats what you are asking
    21 yrs old
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  23. #48
    Coming Up The Ranks GoodForm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JiggedyJoeMoe View Post
    I used the same routine but I switched to Mon-chest/bi, Tues-legs, Thurs-shoulder/tri, and Fri-Back
    Worked VERY well for me!
    I am on a week off right now and looking forward to doing the D4DS routine when I get back to the gym next Monday. Like some here, I'd like to rearrange the scheduled body parts.

    I was thinking the reverse of what JJM has above. In other words;
    Mon. - Back; Tue. - Shoulders/Triceps; Wed. - Off; Thu. - Legs/Calves; Fri. - Chest/Biceps; Weekends Off.

    Reason being that EVERYONE where I work out does Chest on Monday and getting to a bench is 3/4 of the work-out (not to mention frustration).

    Any thoughts on this arrangement for effectiveness? Thanks!
    Age: 46
    Height: 5'-9"
    Weight: 173 Lbs.
    B.F.% : 17ish

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    Why are abs only trained 2x per week in this regimen? Shouldn't they be trained 3-5x per week or am I missing something?

  25. #50
    The Strategist Frankoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Use whatever weight you can to obtain the given number of reps, so if you can go up in the weight then go up, if you have to drop the weight in the following sets then drop the weight, if you use the same weight for all the sets then thats fine, but make sure that on each set you wouldnt be able to complete more reps than what is stated in the routine, if you could then the weight is too light
    I typically don't have any way to spot myself, particularly in bench press. Due to this misfortune, I can't really max out my weight and push myself. I mean, I could but I don't want any incidents to happen! Should I still go for it?
    "If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing properly."

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