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  1. #51
    M&S Senior Member nitrokiller123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJSIII View Post
    Why are abs only trained 2x per week in this regimen? Shouldn't they be trained 3-5x per week or am I missing something?
    abs do not to be trained that much for them to grow properly. To me, they are some of the easiest muscles to tear up with just a few sets and they also heal fast, but like any other muscle, you gotta let them heal properly.
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    Would it be an issue if I were to do the leg workout on the Wednesday rest day between back and chest/biceps? I won't be able to hit the gym on Friday this week and did not want to skip my legs.

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    Doug, what is the reason behind having shoulders on Monday and Back Tues? It seems that alot of the back excercises involve shoulders?

    I was wondering if this could lead to some overtraining and if so, would it be better to move legs to Tuesday and Back to Friday?
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    Default Sets and weight

    Do you use the same weight for all 4 sets? I didn't see that on the page for the workout.

  5. #55
    NOT ripped, NOT concerned LtL's Avatar
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    Nope, weight goes up as the rep's go down, eg:

    12 x 20kg's, 10 x 22kg's, 8 x 24kg's, 6 x 26kg's

    LtL

  6. #56
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerdap View Post
    Doug, what is the reason behind having shoulders on Monday and Back Tues? It seems that alot of the back excercises involve shoulders?

    I was wondering if this could lead to some overtraining and if so, would it be better to move legs to Tuesday and Back to Friday?
    The exercises for the anterior and lateral heads of the delts dont involve much back work apart from the traps and this involement is only as a synergist. The rear delt raise again only involves the traps again as a synergist and also the rotator cuff.
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  7. #57
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richshap View Post
    Do you use the same weight for all 4 sets? I didn't see that on the page for the workout.
    Hi, the importan issue with this routine is the repetitions, you use a weight that you can only just perform the number of reps stated in the routine, if that involves going up in weight then thats fine, if weight stays the same or has to be lowered then again thats fine.
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    Default 3 questions on Dougs routine

    Thanks.

    Also I have been doing the 5x5 workouts for awhile. Two questions: I hurt my shoulder doing bench presses and I believe what I did is that my bench press weight went up very quickly while my miltary shoulder press weight stalled at 105. I was benching 175. Not sure if that is a good ratio but my shoulder is really sore(I believe my form is ok now but before I hurt it I do think I was not squeezing my shoulder blades together and thus allowing my shoulders to round foward). I don't believe its muscle related as when I push on the little button bone that is connected to my collar bone its sore. So my question is I read that if you use dumbbells to do bench's it will keep you from involving your shoulder muscles to much. True?

    Second question is that I do the squats 3 times a week(5x5 had me do that). Can I simply remove the leg workouts from this routine and keep doing squats 3 days a week? I feel like if I don't do squats that many times I start to lose the strength very quickly? I got up to 265 5x5. My goal is to get to 315 5x5 and stop.

    Also side question as I am curious. Does muscle weigh differently for people? I started at about 175 and currently way 196. Not ripped just look normal. I can tell I am bigger(specially butt and thighs) but not really what I thought I would look like at 200lbs.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by richshap View Post
    Thanks.

    Also I have been doing the 5x5 workouts for awhile. Two questions: I hurt my shoulder doing bench presses and I believe what I did is that my bench press weight went up very quickly while my miltary shoulder press weight stalled at 105. I was benching 175. Not sure if that is a good ratio but my shoulder is really sore(I believe my form is ok now but before I hurt it I do think I was not squeezing my shoulder blades together and thus allowing my shoulders to round foward). I don't believe its muscle related as when I push on the little button bone that is connected to my collar bone its sore. So my question is I read that if you use dumbbells to do bench's it will keep you from involving your shoulder muscles to much. True?

    Second question is that I do the squats 3 times a week(5x5 had me do that). Can I simply remove the leg workouts from this routine and keep doing squats 3 days a week? I feel like if I don't do squats that many times I start to lose the strength very quickly? I got up to 265 5x5. My goal is to get to 315 5x5 and stop.

    Also side question as I am curious. Does muscle weigh differently for people? I started at about 175 and currently way 196. Not ripped just look normal. I can tell I am bigger(specially butt and thighs) but not really what I thought I would look like at 200lbs.
    1st, you need to see a doctor about your shoulder, little pains can turn into huge pains and surgery. Ask the inventor of the routine, he'll tell you!

    2nd, DON'T MESS WITH THE ROUTINE, DOUG'S A GENIUS!!!!!
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    Is going to the gym 4 times a week really enough for a 4 day split!? Cause every single person (some with alot of experience and studies) tell me that for a 4 days split you nedd to go at least 5-6 times a week. What do u guys think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario2622 View Post
    Is going to the gym 4 times a week really enough for a 4 day split!? Cause every single person (some with alot of experience and studies) tell me that for a 4 days split you nedd to go at least 5-6 times a week. What do u guys think?
    Less is more, simply that.
    5-6 times per week can be OK for advanced trainers, but 5-6 days can be pushing yourself in terms of recovery and rest.
    Ussualy between 3-5 days for building muscle, any more than this and you can be putting yourself at risk of overtraining.
    Consistency is the key

  12. #62
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario2622 View Post
    Is going to the gym 4 times a week really enough for a 4 day split!? Cause every single person (some with alot of experience and studies) tell me that for a 4 days split you nedd to go at least 5-6 times a week. What do u guys think?
    Who are these "every single person" telling you to train 5-6 days a week, and especially the ones with "a lot of experience" and what studies are you referring to. The lads/girls on this forum have many many years experience in training and some are training instructors, who also are clued up on scientific studies, none (that I know of) would recommend a 5-6 day a week training to build muscle naturally. Only professional bodybuilders train 5 days per week
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  13. #63
    Psychosociety Graeme's Avatar
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    Just a question here..

    What if you started heavy at your 8 rep max, and worked your way down to keep in the rep range.. ex.. squat.. 250 for 8, 240 for 8, 235, 230 ..?

    Is there any disadvantage to this? Assuming that you have properly warmed up, and stretched first. What about advantages?
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  14. #64
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme666 View Post
    Just a question here..

    What if you started heavy at your 8 rep max, and worked your way down to keep in the rep range.. ex.. squat.. 250 for 8, 240 for 8, 235, 230 ..?

    Is there any disadvantage to this? Assuming that you have properly warmed up, and stretched first. What about advantages?
    The training intensity could be lower if weight was lowered each set, but rep ranges stayed the same,
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    Psychosociety Graeme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    The training intensity could be lower if weight was lowered each set, but rep ranges stayed the same,
    Ok thanks Doug, so I am understanding that there is no benefit to this training, other than lifting more weight on the first set (ego) .. Or the benefits are just outweighed by the downfalls?
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  16. #66
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme666 View Post
    Ok thanks Doug, so I am understanding that there is no benefit to this training, other than lifting more weight on the first set (ego) .. Or the benefits are just outweighed by the downfalls?
    For training we need to keep the intensity high, so as long as the intensity was still high and the person had to drop the weights to achieve 8 reps, then that would be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Who are these "every single person" telling you to train 5-6 days a week, and especially the ones with "a lot of experience" and what studies are you referring to. The lads/girls on this forum have many many years experience in training and some are training instructors, who also are clued up on scientific studies, none (that I know of) would recommend a 5-6 day a week training to build muscle naturally. Only professional bodybuilders train 5 days per week
    Gym instructors that I know who have 20 years of experience and also at my kinesiology classes in university. It says that you shouldnt have a complete seven days of rest between the days you workout the same muscle. According to these ppl and studies, it should be 4-6 for gaining muscle mass. Also, does anyone know why my pecs hurt the day after I workout my back in Doug's routine. And my form is impecable.

  18. #68
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario2622 View Post
    Gym instructors that I know who have 20 years of experience and also at my kinesiology classes in university. It says that you shouldnt have a complete seven days of rest between the days you workout the same muscle. According to these ppl and studies, it should be 4-6 for gaining muscle mass. Also, does anyone know why my pecs hurt the day after I workout my back in Doug's routine. And my form is impecable.
    I would suggest that you have been training wrongly for quite a while, and have created tight chest muscles, the chest muscles would be stretched when performing the back workout.

    You are free to listen to whoever you want, and I think you are probably getting confused as to what you have been told. Especially with your comments of "Is going to the gym 4 times a week really enough for a 4 day split!? Cause every single person (some with alot of experience and studies) tell me that for a 4 days split you nedd to go at least 5-6 times a week" and this one "Dumbell shrug is placed in the shoulders, but isnt it for trapezes"

    You cant perform high intensity training for body building five or six days per week. If you attempted training this way you would be overtraining.

    And I think you need to change your instructors, by the way, have any of these instructors of 20yrs, got any experience of bodybuilding or even weight training...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I would suggest that you have been training wrongly for quite a while, and have created tight chest muscles, the chest muscles would be stretched when performing the back workout.

    You are free to listen to whoever you want, and I think you are probably getting confused as to what you have been told. Especially with your comments of "Is going to the gym 4 times a week really enough for a 4 day split!? Cause every single person (some with alot of experience and studies) tell me that for a 4 days split you nedd to go at least 5-6 times a week" and this one "Dumbell shrug is placed in the shoulders, but isnt it for trapezes"

    You cant perform high intensity training for body building five or six days per week. If you attempted training this way you would be overtraining.

    And I think you need to change your instructors, by the way, have any of these instructors of 20yrs, got any experience of bodybuilding or even weight training...
    OK I don't know why you're getting so much on the defensive, I'm not even pretending that you're wrong, I'm just telling you what ppl have told me and What im studying at university,

    If I didnt care or believe what ppl say on this forum, I wouldnt even come here to ask about it and just do what Ive been told and learnt. But I just can't imagine that what we learn in kinesiology classes would be bs.

    And I was right about the shrugs comment, I dont know why you are bringing that up. And also, two of the gym instructors I was mentionning have been competitive bodybuilders when they were younger. Anyway Im not here to accuse anybody of being wrong, Im just here to exchange with ppl so no need to get all testy.

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    Coming Up The Ranks JiggedyJoeMoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario2622 View Post
    OK I don't know why you're getting so much on the defensive, I'm not even pretending that you're wrong, I'm just telling you what ppl have told me and What im studying at university,

    If I didnt care or believe what ppl say on this forum, I wouldnt even come here to ask about it and just do what Ive been told and learnt. But I just can't imagine that what we learn in kinesiology classes would be bs.

    And I was right about the shrugs comment, I dont know why you are bringing that up. And also, two of the gym instructors I was mentionning have been competitive bodybuilders when they were younger. Anyway Im not here to accuse anybody of being wrong, Im just here to exchange with ppl so no need to get all testy.
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    Competitive bodybuilding ..UNnaturally, which means they can train 6 times a week and still grow more. No one here said what your learning in your classes are BS, we are just saying that whoever told you to go to the gym 6 times a week to --> gain muscle <-- is wrong unless your taking chemicals, because otherwise your body will be exhausted.

    Experiment yourself, train 6 times a week for 10 weeks natually and see what results you'll get, post up your details and then again in 10 weeks.. and even you then can tell the experienced trainer that he's talking BS.

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    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario2622 View Post

    And I was right about the shrugs comment,
    You were right about the shrugs targeting the traps, but there is nothing wrong with training the upper traps on a shoulder day. Many people train the upper traps on shoulder day, and the mid and lower traps on back day. Same with the rear delts you can train these muscles on either back or shoulder day, but many people train the rear delts with shoulders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    You were right about the shrugs targeting the traps, but there is nothing wrong with training the upper traps on a shoulder day. Many people train the upper traps on shoulder day, and the mid and lower traps on back day. Same with the rear delts you can train these muscles on either back or shoulder day, but many people train the rear delts with shoulders.
    hey doug, in alot of routines, the shoulder day and back day are on consecutive days... if traps are being done on shoulder day, then wouldn't this mean that insufficient recovery time since the back exercises hit them pretty hard???


    also... general question... if you are training 4 days a week for muscle building, would it not be fine to do abs on your days off? would this still be classed as overtraining, even though you are doing an abs routine which lasts only 20 mins or so??? i'm asking because it can get quite stressful doing abs at the end of the workout... cortisol kicks in and plus the energy is gone... so when you say 6days a week training is overtraining, does that include abs on off-days too??
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  24. #74
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aKKi View Post
    hey doug, in alot of routines, the shoulder day and back day are on consecutive days... if traps are being done on shoulder day, then wouldn't this mean that insufficient recovery time since the back exercises hit them pretty hard???
    Hi, the upper traps elevate the scapula (as in exercises such as shrugs), which is not what would happen with training the mid and lower traps on back day.


    Quote Originally Posted by aKKi View Post
    also... general question... if you are training 4 days a week for muscle building, would it not be fine to do abs on your days off? would this still be classed as overtraining, even though you are doing an abs routine which lasts only 20 mins or so??? i'm asking because it can get quite stressful doing abs at the end of the workout... cortisol kicks in and plus the energy is gone... so when you say 6days a week training is overtraining, does that include abs on off-days too??
    You can train the abs on "off" days, but if using weighted abdominal exercises I recommend training then on a Mon/Thurs or Tue/Fri, and keeping the rest days as recovery days
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    You were right about the shrugs targeting the traps, but there is nothing wrong with training the upper traps on a shoulder day. Many people train the upper traps on shoulder day, and the mid and lower traps on back day. Same with the rear delts you can train these muscles on either back or shoulder day, but many people train the rear delts with shoulders.
    I didn't say it was wrong to train traps on the shoulder day.

 

 

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