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  1. #26
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by British Rich View Post
    Thanks Doug - good info as always...

    I have a question.
    if we are "dominant" in one or the other that means that we are all made up of both type of course, just the proportions vary.

    In that case it would be beneficial to do BOTH high rep AND high intensity to target both types of fibres...you just tweak the proportions to match the proportions of your fibre type...?

    Or is doing both types of training for the same muscle counter-productive...?
    No, your right. normal people have a 50-50 or 60-40 split between fast and slow twitch fibers, so as with normal training you would use a periodization routine in which you would train for strength, hypertrophy, endurance over a 12 month period, split into microcycles depending on either sport or goal
    Doug

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  2. #27
    Regular Poster British Rich's Avatar
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    I figured it would come back to the "goal"...most things do

    Thanks.
    "Failure is the evolution of success. It is only when you stop trying that failure becomes pointless".


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  3. #28
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    Just saw this post. Excellent I must say.

    I did the first test. I used the one-arm dumbbell curl for the exercise. I lifted 85 lbs. for the 1 rep and 65 lbs for the second phase. I was able to get 7 full reps out and maybe half another one. So according to what you posted, I am into the mix of ST and FT but lean towards FT.

    Question. If I am trying to lose body fat but maintain muscle, should I continue to use heavy weights or lean more towards the higher reps to help lose the fat? Or does this have anything to do with that part?
    Current Wt: 350
    Goals: Maintain bulk, lose fat, overall health.
    Wt. training 4xweek with 3x20 cardio

  4. #29
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd4u2 View Post
    Just saw this post. Excellent I must say.

    I did the first test. I used the one-arm dumbbell curl for the exercise. I lifted 85 lbs. for the 1 rep and 65 lbs for the second phase. I was able to get 7 full reps out and maybe half another one. So according to what you posted, I am into the mix of ST and FT but lean towards FT.

    Question. If I am trying to lose body fat but maintain muscle, should I continue to use heavy weights or lean more towards the higher reps to help lose the fat? Or does this have anything to do with that part?
    Keep the weights as high as you can to maintain lean body mass, you can reduce rest time between sets to use more calories in the workout, but for losing bodyfat is cardio and diet.....
    Doug

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  5. #30
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    Right, thanks. I was doing cardio 6 days a week at 30 minutes interval training and using higher reps usually 10 to failure. I thought I might lose more weight that way. After 27 lbs lost it plataued. Need to re-think as that hasn't worked for the last month.
    Current Wt: 350
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  6. #31
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd4u2 View Post
    Right, thanks. I was doing cardio 6 days a week at 30 minutes interval training and using higher reps usually 10 to failure. I thought I might lose more weight that way. After 27 lbs lost it plataued. Need to re-think as that hasn't worked for the last month.
    Every 5lb of fat that is lost the calories need to be recalculated downwards, as if you stay on the same level it wont work....
    Doug

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Ever wondered why a muscle isnt growing....

    A normal person has a 50/50% split between fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibres. But some people can have a predominance of fast or slow twitch muscle fibres. But how do you find out what is your muscle make up, so that you can alter your training to suit you muscle fiber type...

    It is quite common to have a slightly predominant muscle fibre type, thats why professional athletes are good at what they do, long distance runners are predominently slow twitch, bodybuilders are mostly fast twitch. But to find out the fiber type in a particular muscle takes time to sort out..

    How to find your muscle fiber composition.

    The objective of the muscle fiber test is to determine the fiber composition of the muscles being used for a particular exercise. Two test protocols are described: The Dr F. Hatield muscle fiber test and the Charles Poliquin muscle fiber test.

    Required Resources:
    To undertake this test you will require:

    Weight training facilities
    An assistant/spotter
    Selection of exercises

    How to conduct the Dr F. Hatfield muscle fiber test:

    Determine your one repetition maximum (1RM) on an exercise
    Rest for 15 minutes
    Perform as many repetitions as possible with 80% of your 1RM
    Analysis:

    Less than 7 repetitions Your fast twitch (FT) dominant
    7 or 8 repetitions You have a mixed fiber type
    More than 8 repetitions You are slow twitch (ST) dominant
    If you are FT dominant, then you should use heavier loads and lower repetitions predominantly in your training. ST dominant individuals, on the other hand, will respond better to lighter loads and higher repetitions

    How to conduct the Charles Poliquin muscle fiber test:

    Determine your one repetition maximum (1RM) on an exercise
    Rest for 15 minutes
    Perform as many repetitions as possible with 85% of your 1RM
    Analysis:

    Less than 5 repetitions you are fast twitch (FT) dominant
    5 repetitions you have mixed fiber type
    More than 5 repetitions you are slow twitch (ST) dominant
    If you are FT dominant, then you should use heavier loads and lower repetitions predominantly in your training. ST dominant individuals, on the other hand, will respond better to lighter loads and higher repetitions.
    hi doug so if im slow twitch and do higher reps will i get bigger gains than if useing the fast twitch method

  8. #33
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfboy75 View Post
    hi doug so if im slow twitch and do higher reps will i get bigger gains than if useing the fast twitch method
    No, you should work in the higher rep range for hypertrophy, 10-12 reps, but the factors that decide exactly how much muscle you will put on are; muscle size/length, tendon insertion points, neurological efficiency, testosterone levels, and length of your limbs.....not forgetting the nutrition....
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    [QUOTE=Doug;50121]No, you should work in the higher rep range for hypertrophy, 10-12 reps, but the factors that decide exactly how much muscle you will put on are; muscle doug

  10. #35
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=golfboy75;50184]
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    No, you should work in the higher rep range for hypertrophy, 10-12 reps, but the factors that decide exactly how much muscle you will put on are; muscle doug
    Your reply has confused me..??
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  11. #36
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    Ok
    Based on what I just read
    We can use this test on all our different muscle groups to find if FT or ST fiber are dominate in that muscle group. Correct

    So we can do this. Then tailor our workout to each muscle group to get the best overall results for maximum muscle growth ?

    If the answer to these Q's is yes that's really cool

    Kevin
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    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevbass59 View Post
    Ok
    Based on what I just read
    We can use this test on all our different muscle groups to find if FT or ST fiber are dominate in that muscle group. Correct

    So we can do this. Then tailor our workout to each muscle group to get the best overall results for maximum muscle growth ?

    If the answer to these Q's is yes that's really cool

    Kevin
    (1) Yes
    (2) Yes
    (3) Yes

    ....lol You learned it here on Muscle and Strength.....
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    M&S Senior Member Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    (1) Yes
    (2) Yes
    (3) Yes

    ....lol You learned it here on Muscle and Strength.....
    I've learned more here in 2 months than I did in 5 years In the gym back in the 70's & 80's
    Great post man Rep+
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  14. #39
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevbass59 View Post
    I've learned more here in 2 months than I did in 5 years In the gym back in the 70's & 80's
    Great post man Rep+
    Thanks matey....
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    Would it be typical of a mesomorph to have predominantly FT muscle fibres? I've always been a good sprinter, have fast hands and suck at long distance, so guess I'm FT dominant.

  16. #41
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    Wink musclefibers

    Quote Originally Posted by jlbirdwell View Post
    Can different muscles in the body be different? Or are they all the same. Such as if you are a FT in the Bicep, you are a FT in the Glut, Chest, etc.?
    yes!!calves abs and forearms are normally slow twitch with more endurance..train them with high reps..and the rest would be fast twitch or a mix..you can change your fibers if you train them the right way.
    Weight:160lbs Bodyfat%:5.5% Length:5.7Feet Max Bench:242.5lbs

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    How to find your muscle fiber composition.

    The objective of the muscle fiber test is to determine the fiber composition of the muscles being used for a particular exercise. Two test protocols are described: The Dr F. Hatield muscle fiber test and the Charles Poliquin muscle fiber test.

    Required Resources:
    To undertake this test you will require:

    Weight training facilities
    An assistant/spotter
    Selection of exercises

    How to conduct the Dr F. Hatfield muscle fiber test:

    Determine your one repetition maximum (1RM) on an exercise
    Rest for 15 minutes
    Perform as many repetitions as possible with 80% of your 1RM
    Analysis:

    Less than 7 repetitions Your fast twitch (FT) dominant
    7 or 8 repetitions You have a mixed fiber type
    More than 8 repetitions You are slow twitch (ST) dominant
    If you are FT dominant, then you should use heavier loads and lower repetitions predominantly in your training. ST dominant individuals, on the other hand, will respond better to lighter loads and higher repetitions

    How to conduct the Charles Poliquin muscle fiber test:

    Determine your one repetition maximum (1RM) on an exercise
    Rest for 15 minutes
    Perform as many repetitions as possible with 85% of your 1RM
    Analysis:

    Less than 5 repetitions you are fast twitch (FT) dominant
    5 repetitions you have mixed fiber type
    More than 5 repetitions you are slow twitch (ST) dominant
    If you are FT dominant, then you should use heavier loads and lower repetitions predominantly in your training. ST dominant individuals, on the other hand, will respond better to lighter loads and higher repetitions.[/QUOTE]

    Ok, let me just get this clear because it's alittle confusing. If I can do 5 reps i'm FT, but if I do more then 5 reps i'm ST.

    How much weight should be used?

  18. #43
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belo View Post
    [B]

    Ok, let me just get this clear because it's alittle confusing. If I can do 5 reps i'm FT, but if I do more then 5 reps i'm ST.

    How much weight should be used?
    Depends on which test you are using, If you are using the Poliquin test then if you can do less than 5 reps then you are fast twitch dominant, if you can do five reps then you are a normal mixed (fast and slow) fiber type, and if you can do more than 5 reps then you are slow twitch dominant.

    You should use 85% of a maximum weight that you can lift once with strict form...Use this calculator for working out your 1RM (rep max) on the bench press

    Note: Teenagers should'nt perform maximum lifts, so its better using a calculator for working out you 1RM rather than attempt 1RM lifts
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  19. #44
    The Essence of Elegance NicoSuave32's Avatar
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    good article will have to try this some time
    Current Weight : 204 lbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Depends on which test you are using, If you are using the Poliquin test then if you can do less than 5 reps then you are fast twitch dominant, if you can do five reps then you are a normal mixed (fast and slow) fiber type, and if you can do more than 5 reps then you are slow twitch dominant.

    You should use 85% of a maximum weight that you can lift once with strict form...Use this calculator for working out your 1RM (rep max) on the bench press
    I have a question, and a point to make:

    The question:
    When you are trying to figure your 1RM max, what is the procedure?
    Say I lift X amount of weight, and I am able to lift it easily - so clearly its not my 1RM. So I bump up the weight, but how long do I wait before trying again? 5Minutes, 10 minutes, an hour, next day, next week?

    The point:
    To figure our FT/ST ratio we are told to take our 1RM figure out what is 85% (or 80%) and do it for as many reps as possible, and then take that number to figure it out. That makes complete sense. But then you said to use the 1RM calculator to figure our 1RM - which is based upon how many reps we can do of a lower weight.
    The point I want to make is that is completely circular!
    Allow me to give an example to explain what I mean:
    Lets say our 1RM is 200lbs.
    80% of that is 160.
    Now lets say that we have more FT and we do 4 reps.
    If we enter 4 reps of 160 into the calculator we get a 1RM of 180.8!!!
    Now lets say we have more ST and we do 6 reps.
    If we enter 6 reps of 160 into the calculator we get a 1RM of 192.32!!!

    So you can't use the 1RM calculator in tandem with figuring your FT/ST as its just a big circle which in the end will give you bad data.

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    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brak View Post
    I have a question, and a point to make:

    The question:
    When you are trying to figure your 1RM max, what is the procedure?
    Say I lift X amount of weight, and I am able to lift it easily - so clearly its not my 1RM. So I bump up the weight, but how long do I wait before trying again? 5Minutes, 10 minutes, an hour, next day, next week?

    The point:
    To figure our FT/ST ratio we are told to take our 1RM figure out what is 85% (or 80%) and do it for as many reps as possible, and then take that number to figure it out. That makes complete sense. But then you said to use the 1RM calculator to figure our 1RM - which is based upon how many reps we can do of a lower weight.
    The point I want to make is that is completely circular!
    Allow me to give an example to explain what I mean:
    Lets say our 1RM is 200lbs.
    80% of that is 160.
    Now lets say that we have more FT and we do 4 reps.
    If we enter 4 reps of 160 into the calculator we get a 1RM of 180.8!!!
    Now lets say we have more ST and we do 6 reps.
    If we enter 6 reps of 160 into the calculator we get a 1RM of 192.32!!!

    So you can't use the 1RM calculator in tandem with figuring your FT/ST as its just a big circle which in the end will give you bad data.
    The test is to see how many reps you can do at 80% of your hypothetical 200, and it is the number of reps that you can do at 80% of your 1RM. As the article states "if you can do less than 7 reps then you are FT dominant, 7-8 is you are mixed fiber type, and more than 8 is ST dominant.........you are only giving a hypothetical figure with the 200, you could quote any rep range and get different 1RM, Once you have your calculated fiber type then you can determine your training method for your muscle fiber type.

    Unless you are a teenager you can use the normal way of determining your 1RM but teenagers shouldnt use maximum lifts, thats why I said to use the calculator, it is risking injuries for teenagers doing 1RM's
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    What is the procedure to determine my 1RM?
    Once I do my first attempt, how long do I wait before I do my second attempt?

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    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brak View Post
    What is the procedure to determine my 1RM?
    Once I do my first attempt, how long do I wait before I do my second attempt?
    As a teenager you shouldnt be concerned with knowing your 1RM or knowing what your muscle fiber type is, just concentrate on lifting weights in the 8-10 rep range, untill you become an adult.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    As a teenager you shouldnt be concerned with knowing your 1RM or knowing what your muscle fiber type is, just concentrate on lifting weights in the 8-10 rep range, untill you become an adult.....
    Ummmmmmmm............. "as a teenager" "until you become an adult" LMAO!

    Even though I'm usually pleased when people are tricked by my boyish good looks, you never seen me before - so I know that ain't the case.
    I have no idea where in the world you ever got the idea that I'm a teenager!
    I happen to be 33 years old (is that adult enough??)!!!

    So let me ask the same question again for the third time!
    What is the procedure to determine my 1RM?
    Once I do my first attempt, how long do I wait before I do my second attempt?

    So an answer like: "After your first 1RM attempt wait X minutes and then do your second attempt" or "wait X minutes in between each attempt" or "if you fail the first attempt wait X minutes before doing you second attempt at a lighter weight, if you successfully lift your first attempt wait X minutes before doing your second attempt at a higher weight" is what I am looking for.

    Thanks in advance.

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    try this

    Brzycki's equation to determine Max load

    The Brzycki equation is as follows:

    * Weight ( 1.0278 - ( 0.0278 Number of repetitions ) )


    and don't exceed 10 reps with it, cause it makes it less accurate.

    Meant to add. It wont be 100% accurate for every body part, but I'd advise leaving the actual lifting of your 1RM for experienced lifter's with damn hot spotters.
    Last edited by oakbark; 05-29-2008 at 06:08 PM.

 

 

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