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  1. #1
    Banned jaskarn's Avatar
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    Default building muscle without a proper diet ???

    can you still build muscles if you eat alot of healthy foods and eat some junk food like twice a week or something like that and i wanted to know how important is the diet ???

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    yer you will but slower and more of it will be fat then as if you ate healthy all the time.

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    Größte Mutter im Zimmer Abaddon's Avatar
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    Alot of it has to do with genetics.

    People with large frames who can gain fat easily, often can also gain muscle easy by training and not making any special changes to their diets.

    At some point, though, you will reach a ceiling. If you want to get serious, you will have ditch the junk food.

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    I agree with Abaddon1 to some extent, genetics do play a major role. But diet is the most important part of gaining lean muscle(not fat). I would say it's 60% what you eat and 40% what and how you do! And yes as Abaddon1 mentioned above u have to chuck that junk food from your diet!

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    Moderator Scrutiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jask View Post
    can you still build muscles if you eat alot of healthy foods and eat some junk food like twice a week or something like that and i wanted to know how important is the diet ???
    It depends on actually how many calories are getting taken in.
    You can have a cheat 1-2 times per week, but you will need to keep it in moderation with your actual proper diet.

    You can eat healthy foods during the day, but if you fall short of calorie requirements ( or blow them out of the water with excessive eating ) then you will obviously not see muscle growth, if anything with eating in a big excess would provide some muscle growth with a lot of excess fat gained, which will most likely show not much increase in muscle size physically.

    Fact is, you are what you eat.
    If the diet is poor and lacking good quality nutrition, you will then most likely spiral in a direction you may not want ( lose muscle size, gain fat, or even both ).
    Sure you can take a short-cut with nutrition, but in the end you will be the one who will be paying the price.. .

    Hope that helps.
    Consistency is the key

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    Coming Up The Ranks haulinbass's Avatar
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    As long as your diet is good, meaning the rest of your meals are solid enough to get all your nutrition you need in. You can eat some crap meals don't worry about it. During a bulk it won't slow your growth down it will just add a little bit of fat. Don't even think twice that a couple meals a week is going to hurt you. It's not, plain and simple.

    When your eating 5 times per day, supplementing, your going to get your nutrition regardless if McDonald's is one of your meals that day. The McDonald's meal will give you enough protein to stay out of a canabolic state, and keep your calories up. Thats pretty much the only thing it will do. But you will be fine as long as its not an everyday thing. Just make sure you don't go overboard. When I go to Wendy's I order 2 Jr cheeseburger and a medium fry with a water. This add's about 250-320 extra calories to my diet that day depending on the meal i replace. Not to big of a deal once in awhile.

    Let's face it, Some of us aren't training for competition. Sometimes were out with our friends/girlfriend and saying hey I need to go home and stuff down a chicken breast would be ridicules. Fawk that, Wendy's is fine.

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    Former M&S Editor Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jask View Post
    can you still build muscles if you eat alot of healthy foods and eat some junk food like twice a week or something like that and i wanted to know how important is the diet ???
    I did.

    I was in college and had to eat what was provided. Ate a ton of pizza, burritos, mac and cheese and cheese cake.

    The true key is overall calories and knowing how your body responds. As long as you are eating a good share of healthy food, and eating your protein, you will be fine. But with that said, if you have a slow metabolism and find yourself putting on more fat then you want, it's time to cut back.

    I had a very fast metabolism in college, plus I played basketball 5-6 days per week. I was also 18, which helps.

    Muscle building is all about studying yourself and how you react, and making appropriate adjustments.

    I have a friend that trains. He is huge for a natural. I kid you not, his post-workout meal is pizza and beer. (I live in Wisconsin). He eats Chinese food for lunch, and snacks on vending machine food all day. He hangs around 20% bodyfat, and if he dieted would probably compete as a heavyweight in bodybuilding.

    I personally try to eat 80% clean calories, 20% dirty. Food is pleasure, and I don't avoid eating a bit of junk each day. A bit - not a lot It doesn't take much junk food to add up to 20% of your daily calories.
    Last edited by Steve; 07-01-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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    Coming Up The Ranks haulinbass's Avatar
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    I did.

    I was in college and had to eat what was provided. Ate a ton of pizza, burritos, mac and cheese and cheese cake.

    The true key is overall calories and knowing how your body responds. As long as you are eating a good share of healthy food, and eating your protein, you will be fine. But with that said, if you have a slow metabolism and find yourself putting on more fat then you want, it's time to cut back.

    I had a very fast metabolism in college, plus I played basketball 5-6 days per week. I was also 18, which helps.

    Muscle building is all about studying yourself and how you react, and making appropriate adjustments.

    I have a friend that trains. He is huge for a natural. I kid you not, his post-workout meal is pizza and beer. (I live in Wisconsin). He eats Chinese food for lunch, and snacks on vending machine food all day. He hangs around 20% bodyfat, and if he dieted would probably compete as a heavyweight in bodybuilding.
    Well said. People around here get a little to wrapped up in how perfect things need to be diet wise in order to gain muscle as i said above. Would rep, but it looks as if your about the only person I ever seem to want to rep. As every time i try, it says i need to spread some around lol.

    I know what your saying about your friend haha. My buddy plays college football. Hes 300lbs probably around 15% bf. He bench presses 410. Eats like crap, pizza, cafeteria food, taco bell, you name it. He eats that crap way more than he eats healthy. His forearms are the size of my thighs. All natural, up until he went to the dark side 2 weeks ago.
    Last edited by haulinbass; 07-01-2010 at 12:51 PM.

  9. #9
    Kettlebells' Angel !!!! 5kgLifter's Avatar
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    I put on 10 lbs of muscle and did not bother with P/C/F ratios, and still don't. I figure as long as you eat enough calories the body will use it to build extra tissue, and if you eat slightly under what the body requires, you'll lose weight.
    Can't say that I eat "healthily" in terms of what the majority of the forum members would term healthy; but, that said, my meals are based around: some protein, some carbs, and some fat at every meal...so I figure I'm on the right track. I guess you could say most of what I eat falls into the healthy range but I certainly don't obsess about it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by haulinbass View Post
    As long as your diet is good, meaning the rest of your meals are solid enough to get all your nutrition you need in. You can eat some crap meals don't worry about it. During a bulk it won't slow your growth down it will just add a little bit of fat. Don't even think twice that a couple meals a week is going to hurt you. It's not, plain and simple.

    When your eating 5 times per day, supplementing, your going to get your nutrition regardless if McDonald's is one of your meals that day. The McDonald's meal will give you enough protein to stay out of a canabolic state, and keep your calories up. Thats pretty much the only thing it will do. But you will be fine as long as its not an everyday thing. Just make sure you don't go overboard. When I go to Wendy's I order 2 Jr cheeseburger and a medium fry with a water. This add's about 250-320 extra calories to my diet that day depending on the meal i replace. Not to big of a deal once in awhile.

    Let's face it, Some of us aren't training for competition. Sometimes were out with our friends/girlfriend and saying hey I need to go home and stuff down a chicken breast would be ridicules. Fawk that, Wendy's is fine.
    Haa ha canabolic! Regardless if your competing or not any fast food is not smart. The quantity may suffice for a bulking diet, however the quality lacks. Food like that goes strait to fat. Its full of trans and saturated fats that will destroy your metabolism and force your body to store fat rather than gain muscle mass. Trust me! I was there. 140lbs benching 100lbs i saw "more calories= more muscle mass" from then on i ate out after almost every workout, the only gains i got were around the waist.

  11. #11
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jask View Post
    can you still build muscles if you eat alot of healthy foods and eat some junk food like twice a week or something like that and i wanted to know how important is the diet ???
    Your profile says you want to cut fat, if that is the case then its important not to eat junk, although you can have a cheat day, but total calorie intake is also important on the cheat day
    Doug

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  12. #12
    Former M&S Editor Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5kgLifter View Post
    I put on 10 lbs of muscle and did not bother with P/C/F ratios, and still don't. I figure as long as you eat enough calories the body will use it to build extra tissue, and if you eat slightly under what the body requires, you'll lose weight.
    Can't say that I eat "healthily" in terms of what the majority of the forum members would term healthy; but, that said, my meals are based around: some protein, some carbs, and some fat at every meal...so I figure I'm on the right track. I guess you could say most of what I eat falls into the healthy range but I certainly don't obsess about it...
    I'm not big on ratios either. My motto is ...eat your protein, get in your healthy fats, and carbs take care of themselves. This does not pertain to cutting diets of course.

    I've lived the "bodybuilding lifestyle" for nearly 25 years now. Counting grams and ratios is just not the lifestyle I want. I need it simple, and to have some pleasure. Not hating on anyone who likes that lifestyle.
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    Coming Up The Ranks haulinbass's Avatar
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    Haa ha canabolic! Regardless if your competing or not any fast food is not smart. The quantity may suffice for a bulking diet, however the quality lacks. Food like that goes strait to fat. Its full of trans and saturated fats that will destroy your metabolism and force your body to store fat rather than gain muscle mass. Trust me! I was there. 140lbs benching 100lbs i saw "more calories= more muscle mass" from then on i ate out after almost every workout, the only gains i got were around the waist.
    I'm not talking about eating out every day. I'm talking about how not being perfect every single day won't effect you.

    There was also probably other things you learned and improved on other than diet in the time frame you didn't gain until you made gains that played a significant factor. It's not impossible to gain on a not so perfect diet. BendTheBar and 5kgLifter are prime examples. Guarantee there stats top yours, mine, and the majority of the people here.

    My Diet Plan

    Daily Supplement Package Total
    Casein Protein x1 scoop - 120 Cal / Protein 24g / Carbs 3g / Fat 1g
    Animal Pak x1 Pack - 20 Cal / Protein 3g / Carbs 2g / Fat 0g
    Flaxseed Oil x2 Softgel - 20 Cal / Protein 0g / Carbs 0g / Fat 2g
    Fish Oil x6 Softgel - 60 Cal / Protein 0g / Carbs 0g / Fat 6g
    Total = Protein 27g / Carbs 5g / Fat 9g / Calories 220

    Meal 1
    Quaker Oats x1 Cup - Protien 10g / Carbs 54g / Fat 6g / Calories 300
    1% Choc Milk x240ml - Protien 9g / Carbs 31g / Fat 2.5g / Calories 180
    Medium Banana x1 - Protien 1g / Carbs 27g / Fat 0g / Calories 105
    Smart Balance Nat PB x2 tbsp - Protein 7g / Carbs 7g / Fat 18g / Calories 190
    Total = Protein 27g / Carbs 119g / Fat 26.5g / Calories 775

    Meal
    Large Egg x4 - Protien 24g / Carbs 2g / Fat 18g / Calories 280
    Farmland Ham Steak x1 - Protien 11g / Carbs 2g / Fat 2g / Calories 70
    SaraLee Whole Wheat x2 pcs - Protien 7g / Carbs 26g / Fat 2g / Calories 150
    Total = Protein 42g / Carbs 30g / Fat 22g / Calories 500

    Meal
    Choc Monster Mass - Protien 50g / Carbs 67g / Fat 18g / Calories 630
    Total = Protein 50g / Carbs 67g / Fat 18g / Calories 630

    Meal 4 (Having a life meal)
    Banquet Popcorn Chicken 15 pcs - Protien 15g / Carbs 34.5g / Fat 15g / Calories 330
    Bagged Sweet Corn 2/3 cup - Protein 3g / Carbs 14g / Fat 1g Calories 70
    VanCamp's Beans 1/2 cup - Protein 6g / Carbs 23g / Fat 1g / Calories 110
    Total = Protein 24g / Carbs 71.5g / Fat 17g / Calories 510

    Meal 5
    Bottom Sirloin 8oz - Protien 64g / Carbs 0g / Fat 32g / Calories 592
    Baked Potato Medium (173g) - Protien 4g / Carbs 37g / Fat 0g / Calories 161
    Bagged Sweet Corn 2/3 cup - Protein 3g / Carbs 14g / Fat 1g Calories 70
    Total = Protein 71g / Carbs 51g / Fat 33g / Calories 823

    PWO Protein
    ON Whey Protein 2x scoop - Protein 48g / Carbs 6g / Fat 2g / Calories 240
    Total = Protein 48g / Carbs 6g / Fat 2g / Calories 240

    Daily Total
    Protein 289g / Carbs 349.5g / Fat 127.5g / Calories 3698

    Thats my current diet.. See that garbage popcorn chicken meal? That's what i call my versatile meal. Which means I'm free to eat whatever I can get my hands on according to whats going on in my day. If i'm around a BBQ and there cooking chicken, ill take that. If i'm on the fly i'll stop at Wendy's. My stats for 3 years are pretty damn solid, i'd say my chances of having better stats across the board than you are pretty good. Size and strength. Not trying to be a hero, just trying to make a point.

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    Kettlebells' Angel !!!! 5kgLifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRUIN View Post
    Haa ha canabolic! Regardless if your competing or not any fast food is not smart. The quantity may suffice for a bulking diet, however the quality lacks. Food like that goes strait to fat. Its full of trans and saturated fats that will destroy your metabolism and force your body to store fat rather than gain muscle mass. Trust me! I was there. 140lbs benching 100lbs i saw "more calories= more muscle mass" from then on i ate out after almost every workout, the only gains i got were around the waist.
    Just to throw a spanner in the works here: more calories = more muscle mass and then eating out after every workout, is not really the same as eating fast food (to any degree) within the requirement of the body. The two are not mutually exclusive; it's possible to eat fast food within the calorie requirement and not gain fat mass...any food eaten to a degree of overconsumption whether it's bananas, lettuce or M&Ms will result in fat gain. Just saying.

    The equating of fast food with overindulgence doesn't work at this level, because it is possible to eat a small amount of fast food and not go over the calories the body requires and some "fast foods" are not that bad for you...a pizza is only a cheese sandwich with tomato and herbs and some oil, at the end of the day. Just because it's a 12" (or bigger item) doesn't mean it all has to be eaten, if the person doesn't want to eat all of it; tastes good for breakfast too Just messin' with you, but it does taste good cold and is probably preferable to sugary cereal, including Cornflakes which they promote (Special K) for slimmers only to find they have as much sugar as Frosties (the kiddies cereal).
    1-Finger Deadlift, 1RM: 80.3lbs/36.5kg

  15. #15
    Ambassador of pain Possum's Avatar
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    Ive never in my life counted calories or ratios.

    Personally I think its unnecessary unless your a pro or are very devoted. You can make substantial gains just with basic knowledge of what your diet should contain.
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    Kettlebells' Angel !!!! 5kgLifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum View Post
    Ive never in my life counted calories or ratios.

    Personally I think its unnecessary unless your a pro or are very devoted. You can make substantial gains just with basic knowledge of what your diet should contain.
    ^^Agree, I'd rep+ you but the system won't let me
    1-Finger Deadlift, 1RM: 80.3lbs/36.5kg

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    Quote Originally Posted by haulinbass View Post
    I'm not talking about eating out every day. I'm talking about how not being perfect every single day won't effect you.

    There was also probably other things you learned and improved on other than diet in the time frame you didn't gain until you made gains that played a significant factor. It's not impossible to gain on a not so perfect diet. BendTheBar and 5kgLifter are prime examples. Guarantee there stats top yours, mine, and the majority of the people here.
    Daily Total
    Protein 289g / Carbs 349.5g / Fat 127.5g / Calories 3698

    Thats my current diet.. See that garbage popcorn chicken meal? That's what i call my versatile meal. Which means I'm free to eat whatever I can get my hands on according to whats going on in my day. If i'm around a BBQ and there cooking chicken, ill take that. If i'm on the fly i'll stop at Wendy's. My stats for 3 years are pretty damn solid, i'd say my chances of having better stats across the board than you are pretty good. Size and strength. Not trying to be a hero, just trying to make a point.
    Nobody is here to compare themselves to anyone. I didnt say i was perfect, and i didnt say that eating a wendys chicken salad was gonna make you fat. Chill kid.

    This thread is in response to the OP and his situation not eating fast food in general.
    The OP said he was doing it a couple times a week. Do you even know whats in a big hamburger and french fries? Multiply that times 2-4. Then add that to the weekly requirements. The sat. fats are gonna go strait to the gut.
    Last edited by Steve; 07-01-2010 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Removed unnecessary comment.

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    Former M&S Editor Steve's Avatar
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    Watch the attacks please. Don't attack, debate and discuss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum View Post
    Ive never in my life counted calories or ratios.

    Personally I think its unnecessary unless your a pro or are very devoted. You can make substantial gains just with basic knowledge of what your diet should contain.
    Completely agree with u!

  20. #20
    Former M&S Editor Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum View Post
    Ive never in my life counted calories or ratios.

    Personally I think its unnecessary unless your a pro or are very devoted. You can make substantial gains just with basic knowledge of what your diet should contain.
    I agree.

    There is no sense obsessing. Even with a cursory focus on diet, you will be able to tell if you're eating too much or little, and can make simple adjustments.
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    Coming Up The Ranks DanRich1's Avatar
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    My 2 pennies:
    I've trained my mind and my body to do many things over my life, play chess, swim, learn German, fit a baseball, etc, etc, etc. Now I am training my body to lift weights and training my mind to understand how what I eat is affecting my body. I'm carefully following my eating each weekday (I take weekends off) and after about a month so far, I have come along so I can roughly estimate my daily calorie intake without writing it down.

    As I progress and cycle through a bulking and cutting phase or two, I'll be able to pretty well be able to tell how anything I eat will affect me, and I'll no longer have to count, or measure, or anything like that. I will be able to eat by feel, instinctually knowing how to eat for healthy growth and cutting. This will be the result of the hours and hours I'm putting in now.

    So, others have developed their own eating by feel method, and I trust them when they say they never count. That's ok, it's one approach. If it's working for you, it's right for you. If someone asks me should they count and avoid junk food, etc, my answer would be YES! for at least a few months, maybe a year. During that time, you're not just eating right, you're learning very quickly how your body reacts to different foods. At the end of that time, you will no longer have to count anything, you'll just know how many calories you've consumed and what you should eat to get there based on your goals.

    Patience! Method! Enjoy the process!
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  22. #22
    Lord Humungous Blaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jask View Post
    can you still build muscles if you eat alot of healthy foods and eat some junk food like twice a week or something like that and i wanted to know how important is the diet ???
    Since this post has kind of morphed into something else I'll give the original question a shot. Diet is the key if you want to build muscle. I wouldn't eat junk twice a week. Eating a cheat meal every so often is good to keep your metabolism guessing.
    Living Large

  23. #23
    Watchin what yer doin! tadolfi's Avatar
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    Nice turn Blaster - thanks.
    All of you make some good points and I am hoping that Jask can see by all these posts that there may not be a written hardfast rule on what you do or do not do...you will need to pay attention to your own body and adjust as you learn more.

    Guess the only thing I might add is...always start small and test the waters so to speak...don't go off the deep end thinking 3 large pizzas and candy bars every day will not matter...try a pizza and a half first - Then go to three!

    Just playin Jask - you get the idea.
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  24. #24
    Coming Up The Ranks haulinbass's Avatar
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    Nobody is here to compare themselves to anyone. I didnt say i was perfect, and i didnt say that eating a wendys chicken salad was gonna make you fat. Chill kid.

    This thread is in response to the OP and his situation not eating fast food in general.
    The OP said he was doing it a couple times a week. Do you even know whats in a big hamburger and french fries? Multiply that times 2-4. Then add that to the weekly requirements. The sat. fats are gonna go strait to the gut.
    I'm chill.. I just hate it when 170lb guys quote me let alone give out false information to people about anything body building. A couple garbage meals a week isn't going to translate into anything noticeable bottom line, unless your not doing stuff right to begin with. Only time anyone should ever consider eating flawless 100% of the time is if they don't have much going on in life or if your body is paying the bills. Well whatever way you want to eat is up to you, just don't go around telling new guys that if they eat a couple mcdonalds cheese burger here and there they might as well not bother lifting.

  25. #25
    Coming Up The Ranks haulinbass's Avatar
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    Watch the attacks please. Don't attack, debate and discuss.
    Sorry if its me your referring to. I'm just here to help people the best I can. My intentions are to make sure people get the right information and not overwhelmed by some of the none sense that's out there. I almost quit before due to guys that were probably 150lbs giving me advice. Now i'm on my way to 215lbs cut. I just don't want people that were in my position to be ran out the door like i was.

 

 

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