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    Default Whey and Soy Milk

    Iíve heard that you should mix whey with milk or skim milk as opposed to water because it slows down the absorption rate. Would I get the same or similar benefit by mixing whey with soy milk? Thanks.

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    Milk and Soy Milk are two different things. Milk contains casein which is what you want and if I remember correctly Soy milk doesn't. Try not to drink a lot of Soy though because it can elevate your estrogen levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjc68 View Post
    Iíve heard that you should mix whey with milk or skim milk as opposed to water because it slows down the absorption rate. Would I get the same or similar benefit by mixing whey with soy milk? Thanks.
    Why you want to slow the aborption rate? The only time during the day where you need slow absorption protein is before bed ! What is making the slow absorption is the fat containned in the milk..make sure your soy milk have almost the same amount of fat and you should be good..but again the only time during the day where you need to slow the absorption rate is just before going to bed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobusby View Post
    Why you want to slow the aborption rate? The only time during the day where you need slow absorption protein is before bed ! What is making the slow absorption is the fat containned in the milk..make sure your soy milk have almost the same amount of fat and you should be good..but again the only time during the day where you need to slow the absorption rate is just before going to bed.
    Queue EK's response...

    Soy milk will probably slow down the absorption, but probably not as well as the real thing. The reason for slowing the absorption from whey is how quickly and easily its digested. It shoots through you so fast that your liver will turn a lot of it straight into sugar. Not ideal. If you want to effects of quick digesting whey, you can do a couple things.

    1. Mix it with milk, casein, any source of something to make it digest slower
    2. Get about 5 grams at a time every 30 minutes for hours on end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatdiabetes View Post
    Queue EK's response...

    Soy milk will probably slow down the absorption, but probably not as well as the real thing. The reason for slowing the absorption from whey is how quickly and easily its digested. It shoots through you so fast that your liver will turn a lot of it straight into sugar. Not ideal. If you want to effects of quick digesting whey, you can do a couple things.

    1. Mix it with milk, casein, any source of something to make it digest slower
    2. Get about 5 grams at a time every 30 minutes for hours on end.
    so it's better to take the whey with milk and not water?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BukAndrew View Post
    Milk and Soy Milk are two different things. Milk contains casein which is what you want and if I remember correctly Soy milk doesn't. Try not to drink a lot of Soy though because it can elevate your estrogen levels.
    what amount you have to drink to elevate the estrogen?? Is 500 ml (2 cups) a day too much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobusby View Post
    so it's better to take the whey with milk and not water?
    Yep. This is the answer that keeps coming from the people with 20+ years experience and access to medical info. For soy, I don't know, but I wouldn't worry about 16 oz a day. That number is based of anecdotal evidence however, so it could just work for the one person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatdiabetes View Post
    Yep. This is the answer that keeps coming from the people with 20+ years experience and access to medical info. For soy, I don't know, but I wouldn't worry about 16 oz a day. That number is based of anecdotal evidence however, so it could just work for the one person.
    you mean you wouldn't worry 16oz a day of soy milk for estrogen level? I drink 2 time 250ml a day of soy milk (breakfast and dinner).

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobusby View Post
    you mean you wouldn't worry 16oz a day of soy milk for estrogen level? I drink 2 time 250ml a day of soy milk (breakfast and dinner).
    Thats my take on it, yes. 1/2 a liter of soy milk should be fine, but I'm not any kind of expert on soy and hormone levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobusby View Post
    Why you want to slow the aborption rate? The only time during the day where you need slow absorption protein is before bed ! What is making the slow absorption is the fat containned in the milk..make sure your soy milk have almost the same amount of fat and you should be good..but again the only time during the day where you need to slow the absorption rate is just before going to bed.
    Absolute, total, epic, complete FAIL. Milk contains casein as well as fat. Even skim milk will slow down absorption, which is EXACTLY what you want. Whey digests so quickly that you lose over half of it in the liver as it is converted to glucose. -EK
    Donít chase the 1%, there is no magic training routine or diet thatís going to provide any measurable results over the basic principles for getting huge and strong: Train heavy, eat and sleep more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EKnight View Post
    Absolute, total, epic, complete FAIL. Milk contains casein as well as fat. Even skim milk will slow down absorption, which is EXACTLY what you want. Whey digests so quickly that you lose over half of it in the liver as it is converted to glucose. -EK
    I always had my whey with water and it never cause me any trouble...whey + water will facilitate the assimilation in the muscle and favorise muscle growth

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    No, whey in water will be broken down into individual aminos and absorbed into the liver, where around 60% of them are converted to glucose and NEVER MAKE IT TO THE MUSCLES AT ALL. Whey wih milk, however, gets absorbed more slowly, and actually gets where it's supposed to go. -EK
    Donít chase the 1%, there is no magic training routine or diet thatís going to provide any measurable results over the basic principles for getting huge and strong: Train heavy, eat and sleep more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EKnight View Post
    No, whey in water will be broken down into individual aminos and absorbed into the liver, where around 60% of them are converted to glucose and NEVER MAKE IT TO THE MUSCLES AT ALL. Whey wih milk, however, gets absorbed more slowly, and actually gets where it's supposed to go. -EK
    so drinking milk with whey before training is good as well? I tought we should avoid fat before training

    what about the post work out shake...with milk also?
    Last edited by cobusby; 12-01-2010 at 07:54 PM. Reason: add info

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    I don't advise doing a shake at all before training. You want a good blend of slow and fast acting carbs an hour to an hour and a half before training. After workouts, whey with milk or a blend of several proteins is the way tp go. -EK
    Donít chase the 1%, there is no magic training routine or diet thatís going to provide any measurable results over the basic principles for getting huge and strong: Train heavy, eat and sleep more.

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    Why would you avoid fat before training?
    Fat processes vitamins & many other important functions of the body, which will deffinitely come in handy when you workout. Many people try to get as much blood flowing into the muscles so it delievers nutrients to the muscles thus increasing recovery and hypertrophy rate but without fats you simply waste the nutrients and the workout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EKnight View Post
    I don't advise doing a shake at all before training. You want a good blend of slow and fast acting carbs an hour to an hour and a half before training. After workouts, whey with milk or a blend of several proteins is the way tp go. -EK
    what if I train very early in the morning...i usually wake up at 5h..take my whey + water + oatmeal then at 5h45 I take my prewo then go to gym at 6 until 7 take my post wo shake then my breakfast 30-45 minutes later

    I tought we were suppose to have a shake first thing in the morning ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    Why would you avoid fat before training?
    Fat processes vitamins & many other important functions of the body, which will deffinitely come in handy when you workout. Many people try to get as much blood flowing into the muscles so it delievers nutrients to the muscles thus increasing recovery and hypertrophy rate but without fats you simply waste the nutrients and the workout.
    because fat take time to digest (2-4 hours)...if you tain while your body is already working to digest the fat it will make you less effective

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobusby View Post
    because fat take time to digest (2-4 hours)...if you tain while your body is already working to digest the fat it will make you less effective
    Your body is always working to digest fat 24/7. Otherwise it wouldn't function properly. So I'm not 100% sure where you heard that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    Your body is always working to digest fat 24/7. Otherwise it wouldn't function properly. So I'm not 100% sure where you heard that.
    so the shake I take when I wake up should be made with milk instead of water? Even if I have oatmeal and I train 1 hour later?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EKnight View Post
    I don't advise doing a shake at all before training. You want a good blend of slow and fast acting carbs an hour to an hour and a half before training. After workouts, whey with milk or a blend of several proteins is the way tp go. -EK
    but if I take my shake with carbs (oatmeal)...that will slow down the absorption/digestion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobusby View Post
    so the shake I take when I wake up should be made with milk instead of water? Even if I have oatmeal and I train 1 hour later?
    You can workout on an empty stomach, but it would be better for hypertrophy to try and get a meal in before working out. Then have a shake w/ milk and oatmeal after.

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    Sebast- where do you get your info, Flex magazine? You actually mention getting blood to the muscles in your post, but if your blood is all in our gastric area trying to digest food, it won't efficiently get to the muscles Carbs are essential in a preworkout meal- fats are not. Your body digests fats in the small intestine, and they are transport through the blood stream with the assistance of lipoproteins and are stored as triglycerides in fat cells. This doesn't occur in a matter of minutes as you are making it seem. Any fats consumed in a preworkout meal will not be used until much later. Carbs, on the other hand, combine with fatty acids in the bloodstream rather quickly, in the form of glucose, in order to fuel aerobic energy cycles. Inadequate carb availability results in incomplete fat metabolism producing unused lipids called ketones. Have no idea what you mean by "fat processes vitamins." Vitamins require no digestion and are absorbed directly. Further, recent studies suggest that for gaining lean muscle, workouts performed first thing in the AM, and fasted, are more beneficial. That's weight training, not cardio. -EK
    Last edited by EKnight; 12-01-2010 at 08:35 PM.
    Donít chase the 1%, there is no magic training routine or diet thatís going to provide any measurable results over the basic principles for getting huge and strong: Train heavy, eat and sleep more.

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    Frequent Poster cobusby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    You can workout on an empty stomach, but it would be better for hypertrophy to try and get a meal in before working out. Then have a shake w/ milk and oatmeal after.
    So..a shake with milk upon wakening then oatmeal and then workout?

    I just want to make sure..

    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by EKnight View Post
    Sebast- where do you get your info, Flex magazine? You actually mention getting blood to the muscles in your post, but if your blood is all in our gastric area trying to digest food, it won't efficiently get to the muscles Carbs are essential in a preworkout meal- fats are not. Your body digests fats in the small intestine, and they are transport through the blood stream with the assistance of lipoproteins and are stored as triglycerides in fat cells. This doesn't occur in a matter of minutes as you are making it seem. Any fats consumed in a preworkout meal will not be used until much later. Carbs, on the other hand, combine with fatty acids in the bloodstream rather quickly, in the form of glucose, in order to fuel aerobic energy cycles. Inadequate carb availability results in incomplete fat metabolism producing unused lipids called ketones. Have no idea what you mean by "fat processes vitamins." Vitamins require no digestion and are absorbed directly. Further, recent studies suggest that for gaining lean muscle, workouts performed first thing in the AM, and fasted, are more beneficial. That's weight training, not cardio. -EK
    so with my protein shake with water upon wakening and then my oatmeal..im good for my training in the morning?

 

 

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