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  1. #26
    Muscle Hobbit carl1174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian View Post
    I see. Im not trying to sound impatient but how long would I run this workout for before moving on to an intermediate one, 8 weeks? 4 months?
    You would need to be patient with it. It is a complete shift in mentality from the 'I need to hit every body part with x reps for it to grow' mindset that most of us have in some degree (me included)...

    That being said depending on how long you have been lifting, recovery, cns etc etc then it could be sooner. BUT youwouldnt just all of a sudden jump in to the intermediate routine after doing this one for 12 weeks, it doesnt work like that you will add parts of the intermediate every now and again so that the body can get used to it then eventually you will be doing the full intermediate routine.

    You honestly done need to hit the rear delts (or any other part of the body) individually like you are used to. As majority of the movements are compound they will all get hit plenty hard enough mate

    Carl.
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  2. #27
    M&S Elite Member Kristian's Avatar
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    Oh alright, thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.
    Always put in 110% in everything you do so that when someone else shows up with 100%, you still got 10% on them.-Chidi Ekebere

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian View Post
    I see. Im not trying to sound impatient but how long would I run this workout for before moving on to an intermediate one, 8 weeks? 4 months?
    Carl nailed it.

    I have had Carl do just a little extra work one day a week, as a way of showing him how much harder it makes the session. He was pleasently surprised by the effect.

    The basic program is very decieving in how easy it looks. A common theme of people who start this program, and use about 50% of their known max goes like this.

    1st session goes well, and they are able to get through it with only a mild bit of stress.

    2nd session is much harder with the same weights, and they are suprisingly a little sore. They work to get 1 or 2 extra reps, and may or may not have a little trouble with a few moves.

    3rd session is much more difficult while still using the same weights as they started the week with. They may not make it to the top of the rep range on all the moves, and they are noticeably sore.


    The 2nd week is much like the 1st, but a bit harder still. This is all while using weights far below what they have previously been used to using.

    8 weeks into the program will have you working hard on most moves, and you will have increased your weight a few times on a few moves. Your body is not fully adapted to fullbody work at this point.

    Realistically it will take about 3 months minimum for your body to really acclimate to the type of work your doing. Most people quit a fullbody cycle right as they are about to be able to really catch their breath and dig in for the long haul.

    Fullbody is not a one night stand type of programming. It doesn't have to be a marriage as well. It does need a commitment though. Stick with it for at least 6 months and you will see what it can really do.

  4. #29
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    Default The intermediate version of the program

    Do not try and work into fullbody work by jumping into this routine first.

    My version of a Reeves intermediate style routine.

    This is Reeves intermediate routine.

    Steve Reeves’ Intermediate Routine!
    Exercise Sets Reps
    Dumbbell Swings (warm-ups) 3 15-20
    1. Upright Rowing 3 8-12
    2. Bench Press 3 8-12
    3. One-Arm Dumbbell Rows 3 8-12
    4. Dumbbell Laterals/Flyes 3 8-12
    5. Incline Press 3 8-12
    6. Triceps Pushdown 3 8-12
    7. Barbell Curls 3 8-12
    8. Seated Dumbbell Curls 3 8-12
    9. Regular Squats 3 8-12
    (superset with following exercise)
    10. Light Barbell Pullovers 3 8-12
    11. Breathing Squats 1 20
    (superset with following exercise)
    12. Breathing Pullovers 1 20
    13. Deadlifts 2 8-12
    14. Good Mornings 2 8-12

    As you can see, that is a lot of work for one session. I've taken the basics of that routine, and split it up into a weeks worth of work that can be done in more reasonable time frame for a single fullbody session. This is still a lot of work and is not for a beginner. You should have several months of fullbody conditioning before attempting this program.

    The Reeves Classic Physique, is a solid program that can take you a long way. I would recommend utilizing the Reeves Classic for at least 3-6 months before attempting the intermediate program. Realistically, if your a beginner you could use the classic program for a few years, and make good gains, if you kept progression moving.

    This is the the Reeves Classic.

    Reeves classic physique

    Squat............3x8-12
    BB/DB row.....3x8-12....DL 3x5* see note
    BHP...............3x8-12
    Bench............3x8-12
    BB/DB curl.....3x8-12
    [email protected] Try for sets of 10.
    BB calf raise. 3x15-20
    AB work

    Perform M-W-F

    **On Friday drop BB row and do 3x5 deadlifts** Deadlifts are to be done Reg park style. 2 warmup/ 1 heavy work set.

    ================================================== =======

    Transitioning to this program. Even if you have been doing fullbody for several months this will be a huge workload increase during your week. If you have been doing well on your previous program the last thing you want to do is stall. I would work into this program a little easier at first over the course of a few weeks to a month.

    One way to do this is to only do one set of the superset moves for a few weeks.

    For instance:

    Legs

    Squats
    3x8-12 /superset pullovers 25lbs
    On Monday following squats
    1x8-10 SLDL


    Back

    BB/DB rows 3x8-12/ super set wide grip chins.
    2x8-12 row
    wide grip chin BWx10
    1x8-12 row
    Drop this last set of chins


    Shoulders

    BHP Shoulders superset
    2x8-12 bhnp
    1x12 upright row, light flush
    1x8-12 bhnp
    Drop this last set of upright rows


    The variable rep scheme has been around for a long time. It offers the advantage of a built in deload after you reach the top rep range. If your not familiar with how to work it, this is one way.

    Pick a weight that you can just get a

    3x8 set-rep completed.

    Each session try to do at least one more rep total than you did the last time. Continue building reps until you are doing,

    3x12 set-rep completion.

    At this point you add weight. Generally, I would add 10lbs for lower body moves, and 5lbs for upper body moves. You will have actually increased your strength to the point that those increases will not feel like very much weight. You still want to go back to doing 8 reps, and build back up. You may find that you can add a rep or two for each set after adding weight. This is fine, but I would not do more than a two rep increase per set. The deload is an important part of not stalling.

    You will build back up to the 12 rep set fairly fast after adding weight, and be adding weight again within a couple weeks. It is not uncommon to follow a pattern of a slower hard climb in reps, followed by a faster easier climb, and then again a slower harder climb.

    Going up by smaller weight increases can be a very valuable way of working this set-rep scheme.

    You could choose to only go up by 5lbs for lower body work, and 2.5lbs or even less for upper body work. Even these seemingly very small weight increases are actually a lot of weight lifted during the course of a weeks worth of lifting.

    The worst thing you can do is let your ego have you make too big a weight jump. You will kill your momentum if you increase your weight too much.



    The routine
    __________________________________________________ _______________

    LEGS SECTION

    M-W-F

    Squats
    3x8-12 /superset pullovers 25lbs

    On Monday following squats
    2x8-10 SLDL


    On Wednesday following squats.
    1x20 squat flush set.

    ========================================
    BACK SECTION

    Do this on Monday

    BB/DB rows 3x8-12/ super set wide grip chins.
    2x8-12 row
    wide grip chin BWx10
    1x8-12 row
    wide grip chin BWx10

    Do this on Wed

    BB/DB rows
    3x8-12 row


    On Friday.

    2x10. med wt. deads, and chins.

    Would look like
    2x10 deads
    3x BW sets wide grip chins


    Consider doing both DB and BB rows throughout the week. Find what feels comfortable for you, and alternate which days you do the DB and BB rows on. You might find you like to do DB rows as the superset row move, and perform BB rows on Wed. Find what works best for you.


    ========================================

    SHOULDERS


    Do this on Monday-Friday
    BHP Shoulders
    3x8-12 bhnp

    On Wednesday do this.

    BHP Shoulders superset
    2x8-12 bhnp
    1x12 upright row, light flush
    1x8-12 bhnp
    1x12 upright row, light flush


    Performing upright rows.

    Use a wider than shoulder width grip, and only pull until your upper arms are parallel to the ground. With your arms at the correct width at the top of the pull your arms should be roughly bent at 90 degrees. This is a medial delt move more than anything, but you will have some trap involvement.

    ========================================
    M-W-F

    Bench press
    BB/DB3x8-12

    BB/DB curl
    3x8-12

    Dips
    5x BW sets

    Calf raise
    3x15-20

    AB work
    __________________
    Last edited by glwanabe; 02-03-2011 at 01:49 PM.

  5. #30
    Former M&S Editor Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl1174 View Post
    You would need to be patient with it. It is a complete shift in mentality from the 'I need to hit every body part with x reps for it to grow' mindset that most of us have in some degree (me included)...


    Carl.
    ^ Good post.

    Fullbodies are more evolution-based than anything. You will pretty much know when you are ready for changes. It took me a couple months to get use to one, but from there, when you get in the groove, you will kind of know when it's time...

    Don't be fooled by the term "beginning or beginner". They tax the body in ways that make you call for your momma. My workout isn't too far off from a beginning workout in form and function. That's one of the beautiful things about full body workouts...they boil things down to the basics, and those stay consistent regardless of training experience.

    I make small changes to mine based on minor needs. This is a much different approach than the mindset that you need to change programs every 8 to 12 weeks, which really isn't true at all.

    These guys already comment on back and rear delts. Deadlifts and rows have given me an incredible back and rear delts. Pullups round out the trifecta and enter programs at various times.

    I strongly believe that heavy rows work the rear delts 10 times better than any direct rear delt work will. They are a similar motion, only the rows are more brutal.
    Last edited by Steve; 01-29-2011 at 03:29 PM.
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  6. #31
    Muscle Hobbit carl1174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glwanabe View Post
    Carl nailed it.

    I have had Carl do just a little extra work one day a week, as a way of showing him how much harder it makes the session. He was pleasently surprised by the effect.
    True that, by just adding pull-ups as a super set on the monday it changed the complete feel of the routine, plus my pull-up numbers were way below what i would normally do, but my back was still fried
    Quote Originally Posted by glwanabe View Post
    The basic program is very decieving in how easy it looks. A common theme of people who start this program, and use about 50% of their known max goes like this.

    1st session goes well, and they are able to get through it with only a mild bit of stress.

    2nd session is much harder with the same weights, and they are suprisingly a little sore. They work to get 1 or 2 extra reps, and may or may not have a little trouble with a few moves.

    3rd session is much more difficult while still using the same weights as they started the week with. They may not make it to the top of the rep range on all the moves, and they are noticeably sore.


    The 2nd week is much like the 1st, but a bit harder still. This is all while using weights far below what they have previously been used to using.
    This is pretty much spot on for my experience. The first session it felt like i was doing nothing much, untill the next day, by the end of last week (still only my second week) I had ached in a slightly different way after every workout and the routine felt like a different routine every time i finished it. I have managed to up all my reps, but only just and weight has styed the same on curls, dips and bench


    Fantastic points GL and thanks for putting the intermediate in here as well so people can see what this will develop in to...
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post

    Fullbodies are more evolution-based than anything. You will pretty much know when you are ready for changes. It took me a couple months to get use to one, but from there, when you get in the groove, you will kind of know when it's time...

    Don't be fooled by the term "beginning or beginner". They tax the body in ways that make you call for your momma. My workout isn't too far off from a beginning workout in form and function. That's one of the beautiful things about full body workouts...they boil things down to the basics, and those stay consistent regardless of training experience.
    I make small changes to mine based on minor needs. This is a much different approach than the mindset that you need to change programs every 8 to 12 weeks, which really isn't true at all.
    These guys already comment on back and rear delts. Deadlifts and rows have given me an incredible back and rear delts. Pullups round out the trifecta and enter programs at various times.

    I strongly believe that heavy rows work the rear delts 10 times better than any direct rear delt work will. They are a similar motion, only the rows are more brutal.
    all fantastic points Steve, thanks for posting them up... You really dont need to add anything to any particular body parts, there is more than enough work to keep you progressing for a long time...

    Carl.
    Last edited by carl1174; 01-29-2011 at 05:24 PM.
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  7. #32
    Muscle Hobbit carl1174's Avatar
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    For anyone else thinking the volume isnt enough, or that they need to add this move her, or that move there I have broken it down here for you

    Legs
    Legs get hit pretty hard with the back squats... 3 sets per day on the Quads, Glute’s and (providing you are going deep) Hams, 3 times per week that’s 9 sets for each of the above body parts, not forgetting we are hitting the calves for 3 sets, 3 times per week. 9 sets in total for the calves (you will never have chicken legs again) 36 sets typical bodypart split equivalent for legs.

    Back
    Gets hit with 3 sets twice a week and then 3 sets of dead’s once a week), again that’s 9 sets for the back, plus pull-ups can be added to two of the days with the Rows giving you 13 sets for the back... not forgetting the deadlift’s hit almost every muscle in the body (especially the traps, so that’s 3 sets for the traps too).

    Shoulders
    Again 3 sets 3 times per week, that 9 sets directly hitting the shoulders (BTNP or dumbbells as far back as is comfortable) are recommended as they hit the whole of the shoulder, where as a standard Barbell military press primarily places the stress on the Anterior delt. They also get hit hard with the Bench pressing for a further 9 sets and with the dips for a further 15 sets per week. That’s 33 sets either directly or indirectly hitting the delts. Didn’t you always say you wanted coconut shoulders

    Chest
    Standard 3 sets per day Bench press here, gives 9 sets again for the chest, but we also do 5 sets per day of dips which hit the chest nicely (as long as you are leaning in to the movement), that’s a further 15 sets. A total of 24 sets for the chest !!!

    Arms
    Hah the all important ‘gunz’. Biceps get hit directly for 3 sets per day, thats 9 sets for the Bi’s but again indirectly for another 13 sets with the Back. A total of 22 set’s for the bi’s. Triceps get hit for 5 sets per day with the dips that 15 sets per week, plus assisting with the chest and shoulder presses too, thats another 18 sets. So a total of 33 set’s for the tri’s, directly and indirectly. That’s 55 sets for the arms.

    Abs
    The 6 pack most people want is just a diet and a fullbody routine away. Not only are the abs getting hit for 9 sets directly, but because most of the movements are the big compound movements then the core is getting a hammering as well with over 50 sets altogether.

    And remember this is the 'beginner' program, once you start adding in extra in the transition to intermediate these numbers will go up even more...

    If you want to really work your body as a UNIT, hit all the muscles with enough sets to make them grow, but not have to worry about this part this day and the days work overlapping with the next. Stressing if you miss a day as you done know when you can fit it in again, without messing up your entire schedule. Then I vote for full body.

    Hope ths helps

    Carl.
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  8. #33
    Former M&S Editor Steve's Avatar
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  9. #34
    The Weapon SeventySeven's Avatar
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    With the Progressive and straight sets.
    The difference is, straight is one weight, and progresive is increasing the weight each set right?
    Pursuing progression with aggression
    Take care of your body...its the only place you have to live.
    If you train hard you will not only be hard, you will be hard to beat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeventySeven View Post
    With the Progressive and straight sets.
    The difference is, straight is one weight, and progresive is increasing the weight each set right?
    Yes, that is correct.

  11. #36
    The Weapon SeventySeven's Avatar
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    Here my log from my first session

    Squat............3x8-12 completed all 12 reps @ DB 20lbs per hand(going to increase as did not feel much, also going to re-check form)
    BB/DB row.....3x8-12 Completed all 12 reps @ DB 10lbs per hand
    BHP...............3x8-12 Completed 6/12 on last ser @ 20 lbs per hand
    Bench............3x8-12 Completed all sets @ 20 lbs per hand( going to drop to 15 lbs as i dont really feel much in my chest and i did not hold as good a form as i could have)
    BB/DB curl.....3x8-12 completed 8/12 on last set @ 15lbs per hand
    [email protected] Try for sets of 10. completed all 50 in 7 sets
    BB calf raise. 3x15-20 completed all sets at 10 lbs per hand to 15 reps

    It was a fairly intense workout, had a good sweat going.
    Any suggestions? Weight raise or drop?

    Going to work on bench form, i felt it on on the stretch but not so much on the push.
    Either i am to light on the squats or my form was not right, my legs felt shaky after the workout didnt feel much burn or swelling in my thights though.
    Pursuing progression with aggression
    Take care of your body...its the only place you have to live.
    If you train hard you will not only be hard, you will be hard to beat.

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    Due to time constraints with work and being a father, can this routine still be effective if done only twice a week? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by divemutt View Post
    Due to time constraints with work and being a father, can this routine still be effective if done only twice a week? Thanks
    Yes, routines like this can be used twice a week very effectively.

    There are also some other twice a week routines that can be used, but this progrm will work very well. I'll post up some others as well after while. I'm at work right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glwanabe View Post
    Yes, routines like this can be used twice a week very effectively.

    There are also some other twice a week routines that can be used, but this progrm will work very well. I'll post up some others as well after while. I'm at work right now.
    Thanks, That would be great. I have been doing the 20 squat H-L-M workout by by schedule for at least the next 6 months won't allow me to do that 3 day a week routine.

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    Interesting... will definately have to try soon

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    A nice 2 day A/B split. A/B slpits are another of my favorite power type of programs.

    I ran an A/B split program last year, and literally ran myself into the ground. even in my late 40's using the right type of programs I am able to build new muscle.


    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/wor...-by-steve.html

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    Thanks, I was looking at that one before. I'm going to give it a go.

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    Default The Reeves classic variable rep range, and how it works.

    So let's use our 3x8-12 set/rep scheme of the Reeves, and see how it works.

    Lets say you can squat 300lbs for one rep.

    50%= 150
    65%= 195
    75%= 225

    So this week we are going to work at these numbers, and start the rep climb.

    1x8x150=1200lbs moved during the reps
    1x8x195=1560lbs moved during the reps
    1x8x225=1800lbs moved during the reps

    Total for the day is=4560lbs moved

    So I do that on Monday, and on Wednesday I add 1 rep to the first set.

    1x9x150=1350
    1x8x195=1560
    1x8x225=1800

    Total for the day is=4710= roughly a 3% workload increase

    At the top of the range

    1x12x150=1800
    1x12x195=2340
    1x12x225=2700

    total for the day is=6840= roughly 33% workload increase from the bottom end.

    By adding 1 rep each session you increase your total workload until you have reached the rep goal, and then add 5-10lbs depending on the move. The amount of workload increase is not linear in all aspects. Lets look at just the first set alone.

    figures are approx.
    1x8x150=1200
    1x9x150=1350=11% more than previous set
    1x10x150=1500=10% more
    1x11x150=1650=9% more
    1x12x150=1800=8% more

    This small microloading is not just affecting you're first set. It also adds to the workload of the heavier sets.

    You're working very hard during the program by the time you get to the point whre you are using these % of known max for your worksets.

    As you can see, starting at a light weight, and just adding reps to begin with is still giving you a substantial workload. Adding weight, and rebuilding reps each time is a lot of work.

    There is also the aspect of building up your conditioning to handle this work. It will happen but you must allow time for the process to work.

  19. #44
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    To continue about variable rep range.

    In the last example I used just the first set, and showed how adding a rep each session worked as far as % increase. Now lets look at how those % work n the context of all the sets.


    figures are approx.
    1x8x150=1200
    1x9x150=1350=11% more than previous set
    1x10x150=1500=10% more
    1x11x150=1650=9% more
    1x12x150=1800=8% more


    1x8x150=1200lbs moved during the reps
    1x8x195=1560lbs moved during the reps
    1x8x225=1800lbs moved during the reps



    1x9x150=1350 performing 9 reps is an 11% increase in weight from 8 reps
    1x8x195=1560
    1x8x225=1800

    Total for the day is, 4710= roughly a 3% workload increase

    As you can see, performing 9 reps on the first set is an 11% increase for that set alone, but it is only a 3% increase for the whole number of sets.

    1x10x150=1500
    1x8x195=1560
    1x8x225=1800

    Total 4860

    Again we add 1 rep to the first set. 4860 is the total lifted. Roughly 3% increase for the whole of the sets.


    When the first set has reached 12, and you're ready to start building the next set.

    1x12x150=1800
    1x8x195=1560
    1x8x225=1800

    Total =5160

    1x12x150=1800
    1x9x195= 1755
    1x8x225=1800

    total= 5355

    This is a roughly 3.5% increase.

    You could continue to work out all the math for the % values of all the sets, but I think you get the idea of how just adding 1 rep each session is more than enough work.

    This is also why keeping your worksets to a little lower % of known max is in your favor.. The higher you work at of known pr% the harder the program is. For many people, just working at 50, 60, and 70% is plenty of weight to use.

    at the lower end of the rep range is it fairly easy to complete the reps, but as you work to the top, it will become quite hard.

  20. #45
    future old Geezer CLEEPER's Avatar
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    Thanks for these post GLWANABE. I follow the plan much better now.
    Health and feeling good is my goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CLEEPER View Post
    Thanks for these post GLWANABE. I follow the plan much better now.
    Glad it helped. It really is very simple, once you understand just how much work 1 rep can represent.

    People think far to short term about a lot of this. Work this program for a year, and be smart about it, and you will be amzed at what this simple program can do.

    It is not the only way to train, but it is a proven way to train.

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    repped.

    At first glance of this work out you think ,no way this will work you enough. I worked it once last week and so far once this week , again tomorrow . I can tell its goingt to really kick my a$$ as it goes along. I feel worked through my whole body and its only tuesday. WIll post my work out tomorrow to check out, Thanks again.
    Health and feeling good is my goals.

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    GLWANABE, how could this be properly put into a twice a week program? I am doing the fast start a/b at the moment per you suggestion and love it. I am doing straight sets at the moment but really like the progression system you have outlined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by divemutt View Post

    how could this be properly put into a twice a week program? I am doing the fast start a/b at the moment per you suggestion and love it. I am doing straight sets at the moment but really like the progression system you have outlined.
    DM,

    Here is another post I made about working into the program. You could use the same guidelines with the A/B split. I would work at higher % numbers for a twice per week program, but would not just jump straight into working at 80-85% of max.

    It is a good idea to work up to those higher % numbers. You want to do this so that your connective tissue has a chance to adapt to the workload, just like your muscles.

    Post up what you have done for each session so far, as far as weights, and lets take a look at it.




    good idea of weights to work progressive sets from is something like this.

    First set, appox. 50% of know PR.

    Second set, approx 60-65% of known pr.

    Third set, approx 70-75% of known pr.


    As you're working into the program you will need to not go too fast too soon. It is far better to underwork than overwork. Do not just jump right into the mentiond set % numbers build up to them. You could do this a few ways.

    I'll use squat weights as an example, but the same will work for all of your movements. The numbers are % of known max.

    50
    50
    50
    and build reps to top of rep range from 8-12. Doing this is usually plenty of work for most people the first few weeks. The overall workload is far different than what they are used too.

    After a few weeks add some weight and see how you feel, You may try several different workset weights as you condition for the volume of work to done during the week. At times you may even drop weights in one spot, and add in another. Small changes have a big effect.

    50
    50
    60

    50
    55
    60

    50
    60
    65

    50
    65
    65

    50
    60
    70

    50
    65
    70

    50
    65
    75


    This is just a few ways to adjust your worksets, as you work into the program.

    What you're working towards is that final version of a start set at 50%, and a top set at 75%. 75% is plenty of weight for the amount of work you are doing.

    You'll notice that in the examples that the intensity increases slowly as you build into the program.

    A lot of things are happening in the beginning as you start this program. a Couple of months into it, and you will be feeling a lot different than you do now.

    Crawl or walk into the program, do not run. Running into the program is like running into a brick wall.

    As I said in the original writeup. back in the Golden Age, people were advised to only do 1 set per session for a month or two. They were adding weight, but only doing 1 set. it would take 3-4 months to build up to 3 sets in a session.

    This may not sound like they knew what they were doing, but it is actually a good way to work into fullbody work, especially for a true beginner. There are serious physiological changes happening as you adapt to this type of work. Even an experienced lifter coming off a split, needs time to adapt.



    [/QUOTE]

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    Default We could take in an old Steve Reeves MOVIE!

    To Coach GL, Carl1174, CLEEPER, SeventySeven, and all the others following a REEVES Fullbody Program!

    ENJOY!







    Last edited by muscletrainerdh; 03-10-2011 at 12:43 PM.
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