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  1. #1
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    Default How many calories for muscle gain?

    Hello,

    I'm starting a bulking phase tomorrow and I'm not sure how many calories I should be looking at taking in.

    I will be doing 3 full body workouts per week (monday, wednesday, friday) and biking 32km twice a week (tuesday, thursday) and then saturday + sunday off, but I tend to do a lot of cardio on weekends as well.

    I'm 5'7 and weigh 150lbs. I work an office job 40 hours a week and im a fan of TV time when I get home. Though I do most my shopping/travelling on foot and I also do a lot of random movements at home (cookie, laundry, cleaning, etc).

    I've used quite a few TDEE calculators but I keep getting a range of 2300-2700 calories. I've worked hard the past few months via diet to lose about 15 pounds and I don't want to over eat and get it back. I know I need an additional 500 calories if I want to bulk, but I'm unsure if I should add the 500 to the 2300 or the 2700.

    Thank you for any advice?

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    Seasoned M&S Veteran AToE's Avatar
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    Start with adding it to the lower amount, for 2 weeks watch the scale aiming for 0.5-1.0 lbs of gain a week, if the scale's not doing what you want, adjust up or down to suit.

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    Make sure you get enough protein and carbs and you won't even have to worry about counting cal's
    So you say you dont listin to the "big guy at the gym anymore" Instead you read articles and studys and go of what some science study on the internet says. Hows that working for ya? Big guy still big you still small...
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    I'm starting with the goal of 1 - 1.5 grams of protein per pound, so 150-225. How many grams of carbs do I need?

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    get your protein and healthy fats in order. you can fill the rest of your cals with carbs

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    Quote Originally Posted by primalyeti View Post
    I'm starting with the goal of 1 - 1.5 grams of protein per pound, so 150-225. How many grams of carbs do I need?
    You said your starting bulking so you need to up your protein now or pretty soon to 1.5-2g per pound of bw, and carbs needs to be 2-2.5g per body weight
    So you say you dont listin to the "big guy at the gym anymore" Instead you read articles and studys and go of what some science study on the internet says. Hows that working for ya? Big guy still big you still small...
    Bench 345 - 10reps
    DL 405 - 8reps
    Front squat 315 - 8reps
    5'8" 233lbs - LIFETIME NATURAL -

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    Dark Meat dday39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiftinHeavy View Post
    You said your starting bulking so you need to up your protein now or pretty soon to 1.5-2g per pound of bw, and carbs needs to be 2-2.5g per body weight
    we love to disagree. carbs aren't needed (they aren't even an essential nutrient for survival), but they are a great source of energy and cals

    fats and proteins need to be in line, then add carbs. I think fats need to be around 0.5g per 1lb body weight

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    I've heard fats should be around 20%, proteins should be around 1-1.5 and the difference is carbs, not i hear conflicting things here and there.

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    It's simple, 1.5-2g protein per pound and 2-2.5g carbs for bulking. If you drop those by .5g will you be ok, yes you will, but your bulking so remember that.

    Can you get big without lots of sugar, yep
    Without lots of vitamins, yep
    Without bcaa's, yep
    Without a certain amount of fat, yep
    Without a multi vit, or creatine, or test boosters, or n.o., or any supplement, yep

    Without the proper amount of protein and carbs, NOPE!

    Keep it simple. GOod luck
    So you say you dont listin to the "big guy at the gym anymore" Instead you read articles and studys and go of what some science study on the internet says. Hows that working for ya? Big guy still big you still small...
    Bench 345 - 10reps
    DL 405 - 8reps
    Front squat 315 - 8reps
    5'8" 233lbs - LIFETIME NATURAL -

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    It's simple, 1.5-2g protein per pound and 2-2.5g carbs for bulking. If you drop those by .5g will you be ok, yes you will, but your bulking so remember that.

    Can you get big without lots of sugar, yep
    Without lots of vitamins, yep
    Without bcaa's, yep
    Without a certain amount of fat, yep
    Without a multi vit, or creatine, or test boosters, or n.o., or any supplement, yep

    Without the proper amount of protein and carbs, NOPE!

    Keep it simple. GOod luck
    So you say you dont listin to the "big guy at the gym anymore" Instead you read articles and studys and go of what some science study on the internet says. Hows that working for ya? Big guy still big you still small...
    Bench 345 - 10reps
    DL 405 - 8reps
    Front squat 315 - 8reps
    5'8" 233lbs - LIFETIME NATURAL -

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    Quote Originally Posted by primalyeti View Post
    I'm starting with the goal of 1 - 1.5 grams of protein per pound, so 150-225. How many grams of carbs do I need?
    thats a good range

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    Awesome guys, I appreciate the help!

    And I'll aim for 2700 cals and see where it takes me. At what point should I consider raising or lowering that amount?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiftinHeavy View Post
    Without the proper amount of carbs, NOPE!
    ever heard of keto?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiftinHeavy View Post
    It's simple, 1.5-2g protein per pound and 2-2.5g carbs for bulking. If you drop those by .5g will you be ok, yes you will, but your bulking so remember that.

    Can you get big without lots of sugar, yep
    Without lots of vitamins, yep
    Without bcaa's, yep
    Without a certain amount of fat, yep
    Without a multi vit, or creatine, or test boosters, or n.o., or any supplement, yep

    Without the proper amount of protein and carbs, NOPE!

    Keep it simple. GOod luck
    Noooo, you really don't need that much protein.

    Read this study

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/73/2/767.short

    PROTEIN increases from 1.35 to 2.62 g.kg-1.day-1 do not enhance muscle mass/strength gains
    And this is 1.35g per KG (remember 1KG = 2.2lbs) and when they bumped up the protein to double the amount, they noticed no difference in gains.

    This whole 1.5g - 2g per pound is nonsense in my opinion. That would be 3.3g - 4.4g per KG!!

    The only benefit to this in my opinion, is flooding your body with aminos will give you a lower chance of experiencing muscle waste if you happen to go without food for an extended period of time.

    But honestly... you don't need that much protein unless you are on steroids.

    Here is a great article debunking the protein myth

    http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-...-bodybuilders/

    Notable quotes from the article

    Based on the sound research, many review papers have concluded 0.82g/lb is the upper limit at which protein intake benefits body composition (Phillips & Van Loon, 2011). This recommendation often includes a double 95% confidence level, meaning they took the highest mean intake at which benefits were still observed and then added two standard deviations to that level to make absolutely sure all possible benefits from additional protein intake are utilized. As such, this is already overdoing it and consuming 1g/lb ‘to be safe’ doesn’t make any sense. 0.82g/lb is already very safe.

    But, But, But…!
    If you still think you need more than 0.82g/lb because you think you train harder than these test subjects, think again. Lemon et al. (1992) studied bodybuilders training 1.5h per day, 6 days per week and still concluded 0.75g/lb is the highest intake at which body composition benefits could occur.

    Another frequently heard objection is that people need more protein because they are more experienced than the studied populations. Well, Tarnopolsky et al. (1988) used elite bodybuilders and found that less protein was needed than in novice bodybuilders. In fact, the finding that the more experienced you are, the less protein you need, has been replicated in several studies (Rennie & Tipton, 2000; Hartman, Moore & Phillips, 2006; Moore et al., 2007).

    A final objection that is often heard is that these values may be true during bulking or maintenance periods, but cutting requires more protein to maintain muscle mass. Waldberg et al. (1988) studied cutting weightlifters and they still found 0.73g/lb was sufficient to maintain lean body mass

    The only people that may actually need more protein than 0.82g/lb are people with unusually high levels of anabolic hormones. Androgen or growth hormone users definitely fall into this category, but I don’t exclude the possibility that some adolescents do too
    Last edited by allnaturalkid; 08-08-2012 at 02:05 PM.
    Don't get me started on the advice given by pro bodybuilders. It shouldn't even be taken into consideration unless you've got the array of steroids, thyroid medications, thermogenics and appetite suppressants that they use to get ready for a contest.

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    Squat, then eat a steak, a potato with butter and sour cream, and some broccoli. Problem solved.

    Or if you're like me, ditch the potato and add more steak.
    You Can't Out-Diet Lousy Training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allnaturalkid View Post
    But honestly... you don't need that much protein unless you are on steroids.
    not necessarily. For muscle building, I believe the recommendation is 1g per 1lb LBM. However, more isn't bad.
    If someone is cutting, its probably not bad to bump the protein amount up either.

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    Ignore all the micromanaging and just use common sense. Eat about 180-240 grams of protein a day, or more if you'd like. Eat at least 20% of your daily cals from fats, or more if you'd like. Fill in the rest with quality carbs. If you want to go low carbs, that's ok...just make sure to increase your fat intake.

    For the record, I eat low carbs during the week and it works fine for my size. So if you want to do this, it will work too.

    Most people focus 10x more on diet than they do training. They have an OCD diet but are not OCD about progression and using the right exercises in the gym. Make sure your training is squared away first and foremost. You can't out-diet crappy training.

    Finally, there are intelligent reasons to eat higher protein levels. Some people choose not to be so carb reliant, as there is evidence this may not be the best choice when it comes to long term health. Also, if someone is bulking on 3500+ cals per day, eating 20-30% fat, eating 500 grams of carbs and only 200 grams of protein may be a pain in the back end. Eating a few fewer carb grams for the sake of convenience (if you don't really want to gag down another cup of rice), and adding 50 more grams of protein isn't a bad thing. It certainly is still balanced.

    I'd rather eat a little more protein myself. Most muscle building diets are already carb-heavy.


    Quote Originally Posted by LiftinHeavy View Post

    Without the proper amount of protein and carbs, NOPE!
    I know some big boys that low carb things.
    Last edited by Steve; 08-08-2012 at 02:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday39 View Post
    not necessarily. For muscle building, I believe the recommendation is 1g per 1lb LBM. However, more isn't bad.
    If someone is cutting, its probably not bad to bump the protein amount up either.
    Read my revised post, according to the research it's just not necessary for natural body builders.
    Don't get me started on the advice given by pro bodybuilders. It shouldn't even be taken into consideration unless you've got the array of steroids, thyroid medications, thermogenics and appetite suppressants that they use to get ready for a contest.

    Quote by Lyle McDonald - The Ultimate Diet 2.0

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    Quote Originally Posted by allnaturalkid View Post
    Read my revised post, according to the research it's just not necessary for natural body builders.
    Perhaps "not necessary", but there are still many intelligent and valid reasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Perhaps "not necessary", but there are still many intelligent and valid reasons.
    such as?
    Don't get me started on the advice given by pro bodybuilders. It shouldn't even be taken into consideration unless you've got the array of steroids, thyroid medications, thermogenics and appetite suppressants that they use to get ready for a contest.

    Quote by Lyle McDonald - The Ultimate Diet 2.0

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    Quote Originally Posted by allnaturalkid View Post
    such as?
    Look above.
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    I know of no one that has ever had issues from eating 25-50 more grams of protein per day, but many have developed issues from a long term heavy carb-centric diet. If you want evidence of this, there is quite a bit of it.

    No one has ever "not" built muscle by eating 25-50 more grams of protein just for pleasure or precaution, but many have not built muscle because they underate it.

    You're going to war over 25-100 grams per day, which I do not understand.
    Last edited by Steve; 08-08-2012 at 02:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    No one has ever exploded from eating 25-50 more grams of protein per day, but many have developed issues from a heavy carb-centric diet. If you want evidence of this, there is a mountain of it.

    No one has ever "not" built muscle by eating 25-50 more grams just for pleasure or precaution, but many have not built muscle because they underate it.

    You're going to war over 25-100 grams per day, which I do not understand.
    Excuse me Steve, but your math is horrible bro.

    When did I say you should eat 25-50 grams of protein per day?

    The recommendation of 0.82g of protein per pound is much higher than this.
    For example myself at 185lbs takes in about 150grams per day. This is plenty.

    The evidence shows no added benefits above this amount.

    Of course replacing the extra calories with only carbohydrates is probably not the greatest idea, which is why I like to divide it equally with fat as well.

    185lbs requiring say 3000 calories

    600 calories from protein
    1200 calories from carbs (300g per day)
    1200 calories from fats (133g per day)

    300gram of carbs is considered a normal healthy intake
    The amount of fat is no problem as long as it comes from healthy sources.

    I consume about that much fat daily, from sources like raw unpasteurized butter, raw goat's milk, raw cheeses, olive oil, coconut oil and grass fed meats and my cholesterol is great. In fact my HDL is elevated above normal, which is a good thing and my LDL is within the normal range.

    If you want to have more protein in your diet, that's totally fine, but for you guys to be sitting here saying that this guy NEEDS 1.5g - 2g per LB to bulk up is just based on pure fiction propaganda started by protein companies to get you to buy their protein powders.

    It's not necessary above a certain amount, but if you are trying to limit your carbs, of course you need to raise protein and fat because you need to increase SOMETHING to make up for the caloric deficit.
    Don't get me started on the advice given by pro bodybuilders. It shouldn't even be taken into consideration unless you've got the array of steroids, thyroid medications, thermogenics and appetite suppressants that they use to get ready for a contest.

    Quote by Lyle McDonald - The Ultimate Diet 2.0

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    ^^Didnt even read, seems like another case of overthinking things.

    Agreed with liftingheavy keeping things simple and Steve's common sense and fcus more in trainning advices.
    I do not count reps, I make every rep count !!

    175cm/75kg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabro View Post
    ^^Didnt even read, seems like another case of overthinking things.

    Agreed with liftingheavy keeping things simple and Steve's common sense and fcus more in trainning advices.
    See that's the problem with people like you. You only want to read simple sentences that tell you A+B=C.

    That's why so many people believe you NEED so much protein to gain muscle.

    I am not saying that much protein is causing problems, I'm saying it's not necessary.

    The brain is like a muscle, use it or lose it you ignorant punk
    Don't get me started on the advice given by pro bodybuilders. It shouldn't even be taken into consideration unless you've got the array of steroids, thyroid medications, thermogenics and appetite suppressants that they use to get ready for a contest.

    Quote by Lyle McDonald - The Ultimate Diet 2.0

 

 

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