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    So what would be the rep ranges for all of the super set variations? I see on the post fatigue you said 6 reps then 20 reps, is it the same for all the variations???


    Thanks!

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    Thumbs up

    I like the way you made it simple...
    Does the "sandwiched" sets fit in here?

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    Which one of these is best for size? Are doing super sets better for size then none at all? If doing super sets in a work out should you do several super sets per day/ work out or just one and do the other exercises normally???


    Thanks!

  4. #29
    Will rep for Zyzz posts TBtaylor52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgideon77 View Post
    Which one of these is best for size? Are doing super sets better for size then none at all? If doing super sets in a work out should you do several super sets per day/ work out or just one and do the other exercises normally???


    Thanks!
    Supersets are more for cutting IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurus View Post
    Every now and then, one really needs to shock the muscles into growth, and there are a number of ways in which this can be done, including drop sets, supersets and pre-fatiguing the muscles. Drop sets and supersets are often used in workouts, but often, pre-fatigue techniques are neglected because they are not understood. ie. How would one pre-fatigue the Biceps? or the Lats? Used properly, pre-fatigue training gives awesome results, and here's how and why it works:

    Pre-fatiguing the muscles

    Muscles work as follows: There are two types of muscle fibres: slow-twitch and fast-twitch. Slow-twitch muscles are used for repetitive movements, and they are designed for endurance. They recover rapidly, and do not tire easily. They are always employed before the fast-twitch muscles during an exercise. However, when the weight gets too heavy, your body calls on the fast-twitch fibres to do the work. These can lift heavy loads, but tire quickly.

    Example: Let's say have 100 muscle fibers in a muscle - 50 slow-twich and 50 fast-twitch. You lift a weight which requires 55 muscle fibers. Your body will call on all 50 slow-twitch and 5 fast-twich fibers to lift the weight. After one rep, your slow twitch fibers are still perfectly strong, whereas the 5 fast-twitch fibers are exhausted. Now you do a second rep. Your body uses all 50 slow-twitch muscles once again, but 5 different fast-twich fibers, because the first ones are exhausted. After 10 reps, all your fast-twich fibers are exhausted and you can no longer lift the weight. (Now you can see why you do more than one rep.)

    So, what happens if you want to shock the muscles further - hit the fast-twich fibers further while they're tired. You can't do any more reps, because they're exhausted, and if you wait for them to recover before doing a new set, you're not shocking them into growth as effectively as you could. So, the following techniques are available:

    1. Drop sets - give them lighter weights and your fast-twitch fibers can lift a little more while fatigued.

    2. Supersets - use different muscles to assist in a lift while the fast-twitch fibers are still fatigued.

    3. Pre-fatigue the muscles - this is a single-joint (rotary) exercise, followed by a compound (linear) exercise to failure. This is different to supersets in that you use heavy weights in the second exercise, and there is a short rest period in between the two exercises:

    Pre-fatiguing the muscles is done by using a rotary exercise, followed by a linear exercise (heavy) after a short rest period. The rotary exercise pre-fatigues the muscles, and the fast-twich fibers are hammered in the linear exercise - shocking the muscle into growth.

    OK - so here's the rotary exercises which you should do to pre-fatigue the muscle, followed by the killer linear exercise:

    Pecs
    Rotary: Pec Dec or fly's
    Linear: Bench Press

    Lats
    Rotary: Pullovers
    Linear: Lateral Pulldowns

    Delts
    Rotary: Lateral Raises
    Linear: Military Press

    Biceps
    Rotary: Curls
    Linear: Chin-ups (underhand grip)

    Triceps
    Rotary: Tricep extensions
    Linear: Dips

    Quads
    Rotary: Leg Extensions
    Linear: Leg Press

    Hamstrings
    Rotary: Lying Leg Curls
    Linear: Lunges or Leg Press

    Include this in your workout as an alternative to drop-sets and supersets every now and then, as a shock-technique, and your muscles will grow like weeds. Pre-fatigue training works like no other!

    Enjoy!

    NB: This is a very intense form of training that could lead to injury or overtraining if not done properly. Don't completely fatigue the muscle on the rotary exercise, or you won't be able to do the compound exercise with proper form, which could result in injury. Also, don't do this with every workout - due to it's intensity, complete recovery of the muscle-group worked is required after this training, or it'll lead to overtraining symptoms.

    Do I do it for example

    Pec Dec first then immediatly I'm done with 1 series I do Bench Press and rince and repeat a few times

    Or should I Pec Dec completely a couple of series then I do Bench Press a couple of series

    Thanks

  6. #31
    Coming Up The Ranks JCThunder's Avatar
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    I try to incorporate these for 2-4 weeks when I feel a muscle isn't getting worked hard enough. My favorite one (which is great for the "V")

    Lats:
    Pullovers
    Pullups

    Keep in mind its all about good form if your struggling on the pullups do negatives (jumping to the pulled up position and slowly lowering yourself down) or use a machine that offers weight counterbalance
    Get the girl, get to the choppa, DO IT NOW!

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    Default This helped a lot!

    Wow great info. This gave me all I needed to know to start supersetting. Thanks!

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    Default Diet Pills Online

    THANKS FOR SHARING...... I Must take it advantage....

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    Sounds like somethin we call bombardic training at my gym, its awesome.
    Very good info!

    thx will start it after my next training cycle.

  10. #35
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    I am planning to give this pre-fatigue training a shot in about 30 minutes and I am pretty stoked. I will do wide grip pull ups then med-wide grip pull downs, then a set of seated DB curls followed by a set of chin ups. I think I will go back and forth between seated curls and chin ups 3 times and see how the biceps feel after that. I haven't done any super sets in a long time so this will be interesting as I plan to take 45 seconds between sets.

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    Lossing fat is very hard work.

  12. #37
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    "A study that examined muscle activation during the bench press following the completion of dumbbell flyes found that when you bench press after doing flyes, the triceps show higher activation (i.e. were forced to work harder),not the pecs. Common “gym wisdom” is that you can do an isolation exercise prior to a compound movement and thereby force the fatigued muscle to work harder. Unfortunately, this wisdom is patently incorrect according to science (as usual)."

    J Strength Cond Res. 2009 Oct;23(7):1933-40

    http://www.steroidtimes.com/pre-exha...esnt-work/2009

    http://www.musculardevelopment.com/a...th-a-myth.html

    Just bringing this to your attention. Make up your own mind about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by TASan View Post
    "A study that examined muscle activation during the bench press following the completion of dumbbell flyes found that when you bench press after doing flyes, the triceps show higher activation (i.e. were forced to work harder),not the pecs. Common “gym wisdom” is that you can do an isolation exercise prior to a compound movement and thereby force the fatigued muscle to work harder. Unfortunately, this wisdom is patently incorrect according to science (as usual)."

    J Strength Cond Res. 2009 Oct;23(7):1933-40

    http://www.steroidtimes.com/pre-exha...esnt-work/2009

    http://www.musculardevelopment.com/a...th-a-myth.html

    Just bringing this to your attention. Make up your own mind about it
    Interesting study..will dwelve more into it
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    Thanks For the Info

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    I would recommend people to work on slow-twitch fibers more often,cuz it heals faster. To Tasan, so your saying that work on triceps before bench press is the way to bIg pecs? LOL do you work ur triceps before chest or biceps before back? Maybe your arms will get suck. LOL
    Last edited by Qoohhlt; 12-19-2012 at 11:26 AM.

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    interesting post . Thanks

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    Great info

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    I think a lot of the training programs written that include these types of techniques are written for people who are on drugs. Many of the techniques like pre exhausting the muscle are not necessarily effective for naturals.

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    I've just started using pre-exhaust training myself... love it so far!

    Can get challenging to superset like this in a busy gym however.

    Btw, sorry to bump an older post like this... won't let me delete this now however! ?
    Last edited by SuperFreak; 03-30-2015 at 09:10 PM.
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    Reminds me of the style of training Mike Mentzer used for a while, back in the 'dayz'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TASan View Post
    "A study that examined muscle activation during the bench press following the completion of dumbbell flyes found that when you bench press after doing flyes, the triceps show higher activation (i.e. were forced to work harder),not the pecs. Common “gym wisdom” is that you can do an isolation exercise prior to a compound movement and thereby force the fatigued muscle to work harder. Unfortunately, this wisdom is patently incorrect according to science (as usual)."

    J Strength Cond Res. 2009 Oct;23(7):1933-40

    http://www.steroidtimes.com/pre-exha...esnt-work/2009

    http://www.musculardevelopment.com/a...th-a-myth.html

    Just bringing this to your attention. Make up your own mind about it
    I saw this study as well, but the argument I heard to counter it was that the higher "activation" wasn't what you were necessarily going for, but rather greater inroad / fatigue was the goal. So it is to be expected that the pecs could not generate as much force (due to being pre-exhausted), so the triceps were forced to engage strongly to force more reps... however, the pecs are still being worked past that point of complete fatigue (from the isolation movement). Greater growth is still caused by this.

    Just a matter of how the research was interpreted and what they are testing. From my understanding those studies do not necessarily indicate that pre-exhaust is ineffective.
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    Very interesting post.

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    very good to see it

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    need more elaborations

 

 

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