MEMBER LOGIN

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 52
  1. #1
    Stealth Mod Saurus's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Jul 2006
    • Posts
      2,749
    • Years Exp
      10-20 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Pretoria, South Africa
    • Reputation
      29,295,152
    • Rep Power
      292,977

    Default Pre-Fatigue training

    Every now and then, one really needs to shock the muscles into growth, and there are a number of ways in which this can be done, including drop sets, supersets and pre-fatiguing the muscles. Drop sets and supersets are often used in workouts, but often, pre-fatigue techniques are neglected because they are not understood. ie. How would one pre-fatigue the Biceps? or the Lats? Used properly, pre-fatigue training gives awesome results, and here's how and why it works:

    Pre-fatiguing the muscles

    Muscles work as follows: There are two types of muscle fibres: slow-twitch and fast-twitch. Slow-twitch muscles are used for repetitive movements, and they are designed for endurance. They recover rapidly, and do not tire easily. They are always employed before the fast-twitch muscles during an exercise. However, when the weight gets too heavy, your body calls on the fast-twitch fibres to do the work. These can lift heavy loads, but tire quickly.

    Example: Let's say have 100 muscle fibers in a muscle - 50 slow-twich and 50 fast-twitch. You lift a weight which requires 55 muscle fibers. Your body will call on all 50 slow-twitch and 5 fast-twich fibers to lift the weight. After one rep, your slow twitch fibers are still perfectly strong, whereas the 5 fast-twitch fibers are exhausted. Now you do a second rep. Your body uses all 50 slow-twitch muscles once again, but 5 different fast-twich fibers, because the first ones are exhausted. After 10 reps, all your fast-twich fibers are exhausted and you can no longer lift the weight. (Now you can see why you do more than one rep.)

    So, what happens if you want to shock the muscles further - hit the fast-twich fibers further while they're tired. You can't do any more reps, because they're exhausted, and if you wait for them to recover before doing a new set, you're not shocking them into growth as effectively as you could. So, the following techniques are available:

    1. Drop sets - give them lighter weights and your fast-twitch fibers can lift a little more while fatigued.

    2. Supersets - use different muscles to assist in a lift while the fast-twitch fibers are still fatigued.

    3. Pre-fatigue the muscles - this is a single-joint (rotary) exercise, followed by a compound (linear) exercise to failure. This is different to supersets in that you use heavy weights in the second exercise, and there is a short rest period in between the two exercises:

    Pre-fatiguing the muscles is done by using a rotary exercise, followed by a linear exercise (heavy) after a short rest period. The rotary exercise pre-fatigues the muscles, and the fast-twich fibers are hammered in the linear exercise - shocking the muscle into growth.

    OK - so here's the rotary exercises which you should do to pre-fatigue the muscle, followed by the killer linear exercise:

    Pecs
    Rotary: Pec Dec or fly's
    Linear: Bench Press

    Lats
    Rotary: Pullovers
    Linear: Lateral Pulldowns

    Delts
    Rotary: Lateral Raises
    Linear: Military Press

    Biceps
    Rotary: Curls
    Linear: Chin-ups (underhand grip)

    Triceps
    Rotary: Tricep extensions
    Linear: Dips

    Quads
    Rotary: Leg Extensions
    Linear: Leg Press

    Hamstrings
    Rotary: Lying Leg Curls
    Linear: Lunges or Leg Press

    Include this in your workout as an alternative to drop-sets and supersets every now and then, as a shock-technique, and your muscles will grow like weeds. Pre-fatigue training works like no other!

    Enjoy!

    NB: This is a very intense form of training that could lead to injury or overtraining if not done properly. Don't completely fatigue the muscle on the rotary exercise, or you won't be able to do the compound exercise with proper form, which could result in injury. Also, don't do this with every workout - due to it's intensity, complete recovery of the muscle-group worked is required after this training, or it'll lead to overtraining symptoms.
    Last edited by Saurus; 11-13-2006 at 04:24 AM.
    A person is only as big as the dream they dare to live.

  2. #2
    Muscle & Strength Boss Damien's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Feb 2006
    • Posts
      9,653
    • Years Exp
      10-20 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      M&S HQ
    • Training Log
    • Reputation
      296,421,696
    • Rep Power
      2,964,278

    Default

    Man, I have to get you writing some articles for the main site!

    Excellent info there Mark, I'm going to hit the rep button a few times for this one lol

    I'm also going to stick this thread

    Thanks for the post, should help a lot of ppl out
    Muscle & Strength Store
    - 10k products from over 300 brands
    - 500+ unbeatable deals
    - Same-day shipping
    - Free samples
    - Shipping worldwide

    Follow M&S:
    Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | Twitter | Pinterest | Tumblr | Google+

    Follow Me:
    Instagram | Twitter

  3. #3
    M&S Power User ssslayer's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Sep 2006
    • Posts
      1,828
    • Years Exp
      4-5 Years
    • Goal
      Other
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Indya
    • Reputation
      28,107,448
    • Rep Power
      281,096

    Default

    great info!

  4. #4
    Coming Up The Ranks
    • Join Date
      Oct 2006
    • Posts
      195
    • Years Exp
      3-4 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Iceland
    • Reputation
      61
    • Rep Power
      13

    Default

    Thanks for the info, do i include it in my current workout or do i have this as
    an extra ?
    Old Weight: 50 kg

    Current Weight: 75 kg

    Next goal weight 80 kg

  5. #5
    Watchin what yer doin! tadolfi's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Apr 2006
    • Posts
      5,406
    • Years Exp
      10-20 Years
    • Goal
      Other
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Always Close to a Gym
    • Reputation
      447,223,776
    • Rep Power
      4,472,278

    Default

    Great Stuff Mark!!
    Glad Damien made it a sticky - it helps a lot of people in the advanced stage get over some plateaus.

    Thanks for posting it up!
    ~Troy
    Failure to Plan is Planning to Fail
    What's your plan?
    Yes, I am a Moderator

  6. #6
    M&S Power User ssslayer's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Sep 2006
    • Posts
      1,828
    • Years Exp
      4-5 Years
    • Goal
      Other
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Indya
    • Reputation
      28,107,448
    • Rep Power
      281,096

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeMiuX
    Thanks for the info, do i include it in my current workout or do i have this as
    an extra ?
    I believe this should be used only when you've hit plateau, otherwise such a WO if done regularly may lead to burn-out. (It become really high intensity)

  7. #7
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Jul 2006
    • Posts
      32,458
    • Years Exp
      20+ Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      UK
    • Reputation
      1,385,257,343
    • Rep Power
      13,852,748

    Default

    Good Post Mark. rep+

    I'd like to add the following though. Pre-Exhaust training is normally done with no rest between the sets, but when you perform two exercises with no rest in between you have to reduce the weight you can handle especially in the second exercise, the strength will also decrease even more with each subsequent superset. Because supersets dont allow you to use maximal weights they are not the best for building strength and are normally used more for shaping and using pre-contest (cutting). Longer rest intervals are needed between sets. Normally 3 - 5 minute rest periods.

    Different types of Super Sets:

    (1) Pre-Exhaust. This is when an Isolation exercise is done first and followed secondly without rest by a compound exercise. i.e. leg ext/squat.

    (2) Post-Exhaust. This type is when you use a compound movement first followed by an isolation exercise. This enables you to use more weight on the compound movement. With this type of routine instead of using the normal 8 - 12 reps, you can on the compound movement use a rep range of 6 reps and then use a higher rep range (i.e. 20 reps) which gives both size and strength and when doing the isolation exercise at high reps pumps blood into the muscle. e.g. Leg press/leg extension

    (3) Compound Superset. This type of super set is extremely difficult and not for the faint hearted..lol. you can achieve some good muscle growth from this type of superset but it can be very taxing on the Central nervous system and would require special attention to recovery after each session. Because the second exercise will require a great deal of neuromuscular co-ordination you will require a spotter. e.g Squats/Leg Press.

    (4) Isolation Supersets. This type of superset is when you do two isolation exercises back to back. e.g. Dumbell flys/Cable cross over.

    (5) Antagonistic Superset. This type of supersets allows you to use two oposing muscle groups which will allow one muscle group to be resting whilst using the other. examples would be Biceps/Triceps, or Chest/Back, or Quads/Hamstrings. this type of superset is good for lagging bodyparts. e.g Barbell Curl/Tricep pushdown. Leg extension/leg curl.

    (6) Staggered Sets. This type of superset is not used by many people but can save a great deal of time for your training as you are using a major muscle with a minor one, and is normally used with abs and calves. Say for example you were training chest, instead of resting in between the chest sets you go and do a set of calves in between.

    Tried to give you some Rep+ but it would'nt allow me to give you any more?. Damien why wont it allow me to give mark some reps ??????????
    Last edited by Doug; 11-18-2006 at 08:44 PM.
    Doug

    Not Joined The Forum Yet?? CLICK HERE TO REGISTER.

    * My Articles and Workouts Page - Click Here

    * My fitness Centre Site - www.gemini-fitness-centre.co.uk

    * My Nutrition & Diet site - Coming Soon

    "You can't out-train a lousy diet"

  8. #8
    Regular Poster luke's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Dec 2006
    • Posts
      307
    • Years Exp
      < 6 Months
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Melbourne, Australia
    • Reputation
      31
    • Rep Power
      14

    Default

    great information...gees this site has given me a much broader knowledge and i have only known it for 2 days !

  9. #9
    Just joined M&S eidolon's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Mar 2007
    • Posts
      19
    • Years Exp
      10-20 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Ankara
    • Reputation
      12
    • Rep Power
      0

    Default

    Beleive it or not I have applied all those squences without knowing what they are. Rather useful to learn how they are classified as legitimate techniques. Thanks for the information.
    height:175 (5'9")
    weight:98 kg (216lbs-current)

  10. #10
    M&S Power User Stovebolt's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Feb 2007
    • Posts
      1,506
    • Years Exp
      2-3 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      NJ, USA
    • Reputation
      4,268,604
    • Rep Power
      42,706

    Default

    Yeah, I was actually doing this unintentionally on leg day. I'll rearrange my workout and save the shocking for later.

    Good info Saurus!
    "The truth may only be revealed to those who truly seek it. Otherwise, it is lost in the lies."

  11. #11
    Just joined M&S
    • Join Date
      Mar 2007
    • Posts
      3
    • Years Exp
      6-12 Months
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Vancouver
    • Reputation
      10
    • Rep Power
      0

    Default

    hey i was just wondering,

    so do you use the super sets with every work out?
    which one do you recommend,
    pre exhaust, post exhaust, compound superset.. etc?

    thanks

    i currently use compound superset
    (i use 55lbs dumbbells for chest press and then use 25lbs for flys)

  12. #12
    Stealth Mod Saurus's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Jul 2006
    • Posts
      2,749
    • Years Exp
      10-20 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Pretoria, South Africa
    • Reputation
      29,295,152
    • Rep Power
      292,977

    Default

    Hi Blaze

    Sorry for the delay in answering - long weekend...

    Since you are fairly new to training, I would suggest that you stick with compound supersets (ie. squats/lunges), or a compound exercise supersetted with an isolation exercise (ie. squats/leg extensions).

    Don't use them with every workout - use them as a shock technique every now and then.
    A person is only as big as the dream they dare to live.

  13. #13
    Coming Up The Ranks atcgirl's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Apr 2007
    • Posts
      157
    • Years Exp
      Just Started
    • Goal
      More Strength
    • Gender
      Female
    • Location
      Philadelphia
    • Reputation
      66,828,063
    • Rep Power
      668,293

    Default

    Very interesting stuff! I'm still so new that this doesn't apply to me yet, but I'm just amazed at all of the great info available here.

  14. #14
    Just joined M&S
    • Join Date
      Apr 2007
    • Posts
      26
    • Years Exp
      6-12 Months
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      TamilNadu
    • Reputation
      10
    • Rep Power
      13

    Smile

    GREAT INFO DUDE...................KEEP ON GOIN ..........................

  15. #15
    Coming Up The Ranks ztropf's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Nov 2006
    • Posts
      63
    • Years Exp
      3-4 Years
    • Goal
      Cut Fat
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Tampa, FL - USA
    • Reputation
      10
    • Rep Power
      13

    Default dropsets/supersets/pre-exhaust

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Good Post Mark. rep+

    I'd like to add the following though. Pre-Exhaust training is normally done with no rest between the sets, but when you perform two exercises with no rest in between you have to reduce the weight you can handle especially in the second exercise, the strength will also decrease even more with each subsequent superset. Because supersets dont allow you to use maximal weights they are not the best for building strength and are normally used more for shaping and using pre-contest (cutting). Longer rest intervals are needed between sets. Normally 3 - 5 minute rest periods.

    Different types of Super Sets:

    (1) Pre-Exhaust. This is when an Isolation exercise is done first and followed secondly without rest by a compound exercise. i.e. leg ext/squat.

    (2) Post-Exhaust. This type is when you use a compound movement first followed by an isolation exercise. This enables you to use more weight on the compound movement. With this type of routine instead of using the normal 8 - 12 reps, you can on the compound movement use a rep range of 6 reps and then use a higher rep range (i.e. 20 reps) which gives both size and strength and when doing the isolation exercise at high reps pumps blood into the muscle. e.g. Leg press/leg extension

    (3) Compound Superset. This type of super set is extremely difficult and not for the faint hearted..lol. you can achieve some good muscle growth from this type of superset but it can be very taxing on the Central nervous system and would require special attention to recovery after each session. Because the second exercise will require a great deal of neuromuscular co-ordination you will require a spotter. e.g Squats/Leg Press.

    (4) Isolation Supersets. This type of superset is when you do two isolation exercises back to back. e.g. Dumbell flys/Cable cross over.

    (5) Antagonistic Superset. This type of supersets allows you to use two oposing muscle groups which will allow one muscle group to be resting whilst using the other. examples would be Biceps/Triceps, or Chest/Back, or Quads/Hamstrings. this type of superset is good for lagging bodyparts. e.g Barbell Curl/Tricep pushdown. Leg extension/leg curl.

    (6) Staggered Sets. This type of superset is not used by many people but can save a great deal of time for your training as you are using a major muscle with a minor one, and is normally used with abs and calves. Say for example you were training chest, instead of resting in between the chest sets you go and do a set of calves in between.

    Tried to give you some Rep+ but it would'nt allow me to give you any more?. Damien why wont it allow me to give mark some reps ??????????

    Hi there...
    Good info here!
    How long should you incorporate these 'super-sets'? Two weeks? Six weeks? Once a week?
    Thanks.

  16. #16
    - Shaun's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Nov 2006
    • Posts
      4,401
    • Years Exp
      4-5 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      UK, London
    • Reputation
      37,879,929
    • Rep Power
      378,834

    Default

    Whenever you want to shock the mucles, it;s ok to throw in a super set or a drop set every week for a different exercise.

  17. #17
    Muscle & Strength Boss Damien's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Feb 2006
    • Posts
      9,653
    • Years Exp
      10-20 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      M&S HQ
    • Training Log
    • Reputation
      296,421,696
    • Rep Power
      2,964,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ztropf View Post
    Hi there...
    Good info here!
    How long should you incorporate these 'super-sets'? Two weeks? Six weeks? Once a week?
    Thanks.
    Rotating though muscle groups is also a good idea. So do chest 1 week, back the next etc etc etc
    Muscle & Strength Store
    - 10k products from over 300 brands
    - 500+ unbeatable deals
    - Same-day shipping
    - Free samples
    - Shipping worldwide

    Follow M&S:
    Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | Twitter | Pinterest | Tumblr | Google+

    Follow Me:
    Instagram | Twitter

  18. #18
    Coming Up The Ranks Iesto's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Mar 2007
    • Posts
      187
    • Years Exp
      1-2 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Wales
    • Reputation
      8,664,970
    • Rep Power
      86,662

    Default

    Great thread, I'll have to incorporate pre-fatiguing in my next workouts for sure

  19. #19
    Frequent Poster
    • Join Date
      Nov 2006
    • Posts
      742
    • Years Exp
      1-2 Years
    • Goal
      Other
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      USA
    • Reputation
      165
    • Rep Power
      17

    Default Pre-Exhaust Workout

    Monday: Chest/Shoulders
    Incline Dumbbell Fly
    Incline Barbell Bench Press
    3 supersets

    Pec Deck
    Chest Dip
    3 supersets

    Dumbbell Front Raise
    Barbell Shoulder Press
    2 supersets

    Dumbbell Lateral Raise
    Barbell Upright Row (shoulder width grip)
    2 supersets

    Dumbbell Reverse Fly
    Barbell Rear Delt Row
    2 supersets

    Wednesday: Back/Triceps
    Horizontal Barbell Shrug
    Bent Over Barbell Row
    3 supersets

    Bent Arm Barbell Pullover
    Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
    3 supersets

    Lying Triceps Extension
    Bench Dip
    3 supersets

    Friday: Legs/Biceps
    Leg Extension
    Squat
    4 supersets

    Leg Curl
    Straight Leg Deadlift
    3 supersets

    Standing Calf Raise
    Seated Calf Raise
    3 supersets

    Barbell Curl
    Barbell Preacher Curl
    3 supersets
    _______________________________________________

    How does this pre-exhaust workout look like? I might use this when the time comes. Any comments, suggestions, etc.?

    Note: I know some of the supersets aren't isolation/compound (hamstrings, calves, biceps), but couldnt think of anything else.

  20. #20
    Trusted Advisor Doug's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Jul 2006
    • Posts
      32,458
    • Years Exp
      20+ Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      UK
    • Reputation
      1,385,257,343
    • Rep Power
      13,852,748

    Default

    A pre-exhaust workout would be, flys and pec dec before presses, leg extension before squats, Leg curl, before stiff leg deadlifts, pushdowns before close grip bench press, side laterals before shoulder press, barbell curl before close grip pullups, dumbell pullovers before reverse grip lat pulldowns etc etc
    Doug

    Not Joined The Forum Yet?? CLICK HERE TO REGISTER.

    * My Articles and Workouts Page - Click Here

    * My fitness Centre Site - www.gemini-fitness-centre.co.uk

    * My Nutrition & Diet site - Coming Soon

    "You can't out-train a lousy diet"

  21. #21
    M&S Senior Member MistahX's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Feb 2008
    • Posts
      938
    • Years Exp
      5-10 Years
    • Goal
      Tone Up
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Los Angeles
    • Reputation
      163,194
    • Rep Power
      1,647

    Default

    I've been working out for a while now and have done some of these without know the info behind them... Knowing how they work and what they work has helped me a lot... Thanks, hopefully I can build some real muscle now...
    Quitting is not an option... Push muthafffff, PUSH!!!

  22. #22
    Frequent Poster
    • Join Date
      Nov 2006
    • Posts
      742
    • Years Exp
      1-2 Years
    • Goal
      Other
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      USA
    • Reputation
      165
    • Rep Power
      17

    Default

    I was looking at the workouts and saw that there was a giant set routine. Why not add one for pre fatigue training or other muscle shock methods? Just a suggestion.

  23. #23
    Banned
    • Join Date
      Apr 2008
    • Posts
      6,545
    • Years Exp
      5-10 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Bakersfield,CA
    • Reputation
      17,769,326
    • Rep Power
      0

    Default

    When doing pre-exhaust super sets, such as db flyes/bb bench press, how many reps of each should be done per set?

  24. #24
    Muscle & Strength Boss Damien's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Feb 2006
    • Posts
      9,653
    • Years Exp
      10-20 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      M&S HQ
    • Training Log
    • Reputation
      296,421,696
    • Rep Power
      2,964,278

    Default

    I usually do 12 slow reps on the first set, 8-10 on the compound. But there's no strict rule really, as long as you pre-exhaust
    Muscle & Strength Store
    - 10k products from over 300 brands
    - 500+ unbeatable deals
    - Same-day shipping
    - Free samples
    - Shipping worldwide

    Follow M&S:
    Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | Twitter | Pinterest | Tumblr | Google+

    Follow Me:
    Instagram | Twitter

  25. #25
    Just joined M&S tamtomsyria's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Jul 2008
    • Posts
      8
    • Years Exp
      < 6 Months
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Syara
    • Reputation
      10
    • Rep Power
      0

    Smile Thank

    Thanks Man
    this is an Award for your Info.
    Do not Say I can't ,Just Try

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. fatigue?
    By reaperss06 in forum Exercises
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-08-2010, 03:02 PM
  2. Fatigue
    By Jones1987 in forum Muscle Building
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-20-2010, 11:06 PM
  3. Fatigue???
    By BadBoy in forum Beginners Questions & Advice
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-24-2008, 10:29 AM
  4. Forearm fatigue before Bicep fatigue?
    By Rick175 in forum Exercises
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-28-2008, 03:01 AM
  5. fatigue
    By Taylor280 in forum Teen Fitness
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-16-2008, 12:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Community
Forum
Reviews
Articles
Follow M&S
Contact Us

Muscle & Strength, LLC
1180 First Street South
Columbia, SC 29209
PH: 1-800-537-9910
Email: click here

McAfee SECURE sites help keep you safe from identity theft, credit card fraud, spyware, spam, viruses and online scams
© Copyright 2015, Muscle & Strength LLC. Images copyright of their respective owners. Contact Us | Affiliate Program | Terms of Use