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  1. #1
    M&S Elite Member TASan's Avatar
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    Default Lyle's Generic Bulking Routine Variation

    Hi guys!

    Long time no see... I have been out of it for a while, but I am slowly getting back into training. I wanted to try Lyle McDonald's Generic Bulking Routine as a starting point for getting into the swing of things again. You can find it here.

    I need to make some changes to the program, and I wanted to run it by you guys first. I can get pretty OCD and often get paralysis by analysis, and I know Lyle and company can be a bit "DON'T MESS WITH THE ***** PROGRAM", and probably for good reasons too. Anyway, I preferably want advice from someone who has tried it or a similar program before.

    I am of the belief that a lot of things can work, and a lot of things can work well. Making minor changes to such a program to suit personal needs and wishes might in many cases make it better, rather than worse. If only just because it makes you actually go do your training, and keeps you happy and inspired as well.

    The changes I am going to make is based on the fact that I can only train four days in a row, I want to train deadlifts (I can only do sumo), and I need to do all possible exercises on one station before moving to the next.

    That is, I can't jump from the squat rack to the leg press machine, and then back to the squat rack. This has to do with my gym and not having enough racks and machines for everybody. If I get a rack, I need to do everything that has to be done on that rack before moving on to ensure workout intensity.

    I have therefore exchanged squats for deadlifts on the first day when I am rested. SLDL/leg curls are exchanged for lunges because there is only one leg curl machine, and deadlifts + lunges should be enough hamstring work as to not warrant two leg curl variations. They are also done in the same rack.

    Since lunges work the quads hard, I am moving a calf raise variation up before leg press. That will be done in the leg press machine and is a variation that starts with slightly bent knees so I get a knee extension movement in addition to plantar flexion. This has shown to elicit greater activation of the calf muscles and peak torque in plantar flexion in a recent study.

    Next is the leg press since I am already at that machine, and after that, I do straight knee calf raises either on the leg press machine or in the smith machine. Lastly, I add in some lying leg curls. The workout should have the same volume as the original in terms of muscles used, maybe except for hamstrings that I still think is hit hard enough through the week.

    I would love comments and suggestions to get this workout to be the best it can be given my current limitations.

    PS: Front squats are done because I have a hip injury that prevents me from deep squatting. I need to do front squats with weightlifting shoes AND have my heels raised on plates to get proper depth. This is also one of the reasons I wanted to incorporate deadlifts to hit more of the posterior chain.

    PPS: Exercise order has been changed on some days to hit posterior before anterior muscles one day, and anterior before posterior the other. Also to allow recovery from deadlifts before heavy rows. I added face pulls for posture.

    Saturday - Lower
    Sumo Deadlifts: 3-4X6-8
    Lunges: 3-4X6-8
    Bent Knee Calf Raise-variation: 3-4X6-8
    Leg Press Low-ish Feet: 2-3X10-12
    Straight Leg Calf Raise: 2-3X10-12
    Lying Leg Curl: 2-3X10-12/2'

    Sunday - Upper
    Flat Bench Press: 3-4X6-8
    Weighted Pull-ups: 3-4X6-8
    Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 2-3X10-12
    Seated Cable Row: 2-3X10-12
    Triceps: 1-2X12-15
    Face-pulls: 1-2X12-15
    Biceps: 1-2X12-15

    Monday - Lower
    Front Squat-variation: 3-4X6-8
    Romanian Deadlifts: 3-4X6-8
    Leg Press High-ish Feet: 2-3X10-12
    Lying Leg Curls: 2-3X10-12 <-- Might do Nordics instead, what do you think?
    Straight Leg Calf Raise: 3-4X6-8
    Bent Knee Calf Raise-variation: 2-3X10-12

    Tuesday - Upper
    Seated Cable Row: 3-4X6-8
    Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 3-4X6-8
    Lat Pulldown: 2-3X10-12
    Flat Bench Press: 2-3X10-12
    Face-pulls: 1-2X12-15
    Triceps: 1-2X12-15
    Biceps: 1-2X12-15

    I might do a home workout on Thursdays if I am able, just to not rest fully for so many days in a row. It will be low volume, low weight but higher cardiovascular intensity like burpees, push-ups etc. Or it will just be a walk in the woods with the dog - that does wonders you know

    Is the volume of each muscle group, specifically in the lower body where bigger changes have been made, in line with the intention of Lyle and the original workout structure? Have I missed something else here?

    Feedback appreciated!
    <-- If anyone is helpful, be sure to click the star in the bottom left corner and spread some REPS!

    B.Sc. in Sport Science with specialisation in Physical Activity and Health
    Certified Personal Trainer

  2. #2
    M&S Elite Member TASan's Avatar
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    Default

    I was also wondering where it would be prudent to substitute an exercise for military press, or if I can add it in addition. I like that exercise and feel I want to hit the delts a bit harder. Only if necessary though.
    <-- If anyone is helpful, be sure to click the star in the bottom left corner and spread some REPS!

    B.Sc. in Sport Science with specialisation in Physical Activity and Health
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  3. #3
    Moderator EKnight's Avatar
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    Default

    With your education background, you should already know that the lower body substitution you proposed is not adequate for hamstring work. Neither lunges, nor any form of deads actively flex the knee, so the hamstrings aren’t being trained functionally- remember, the role of the hamstring is to prevent anterior tibial translation, and in doing so reduce stress to the ACL.

    Would also point out that unless they are performed in the scapular plane overhead presses create far more risk than reward, and I avoid them with my clients, patients, and myself, in favor of front raises and incline presses.
    Donít chase the 1%, there is no magic training routine or diet thatís going to provide any measurable results over the basic principles for getting huge and strong: Train heavy, eat and sleep more.

  4. #4
    M&S Elite Member TASan's Avatar
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    Default

    Thank you for answering. This is exactly the kind of feedback I am after. I am a bit rusty after a long while out of the game, but I am always open-minded and willing to learn and change my opinions.

    In my specific case, I am not sure I agree with your sentiment that the exercise substitution is not adequate. I only go "off program" for one of the lower body days. In addition, Lyle opens up for exchanging squats for deadlifts in one of the workouts.

    So I'm really just exchanging a leg curl for a lunge. I still have leg curls in the program, and on lower body day number two, I follow the program as is with SLDL (or Romanian in my case), and leg curls. I'm sure you would agree that the hamstring also has the function of extending the hips, and is actually worked at least somewhat significantly during a lunge and a deadlift.

    It might not be worked "functionally" through knee flexion, but what does that even mean? Functionally for who? If we are talking athletes, I can absolutely see your point. But I am no athlete, just a recreational lifter.

    Worst case scenario, I am "losing" 3 - 4 sets of direct hamstring work by knee flexion per week, and I don't believe that will set me back when exchanged for sumo deadlifts and lunges.

    Again, in my specific, recreational lifter-case. But please elaborate, because I am truly interested in this, and want to have all the facts.

    Since I am also getting a lot more quad work and less glute work doing my front squats the way I have to, I thought deadlifts and lunges would be nice to add for more glute specific training on that specific day.

    When it comes to exercise order, do you have any reservations about that? I feel it's a good compromise, but it's always nice to exchange opinions and get some feedback.

    Also, I have never even considered military presses as a risky movement. I have not read much research on injury incidence lately, but I can't seem to remember that ever being mentioned to me before. Do you have any references I can take a look at regarding that one?

    Keep the suggestions coming!
    <-- If anyone is helpful, be sure to click the star in the bottom left corner and spread some REPS!

    B.Sc. in Sport Science with specialisation in Physical Activity and Health
    Certified Personal Trainer

  5. #5
    Moderator EKnight's Avatar
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    Functional- as in the function of the hamstring is primarly flex the knee and protect the ACL. Hip extension doesn’t even include all of the hamstring complex, since one of the muscles doesn’t cross the hip joint. Further, substituting lunges or deads for curls adds more knee extension (quad) work at the expense of hamstring work. Wanna know the greatest modifiable risk factor for ACL tears? Too much quad strength without adequate hamstring work. The tibia is continuously translating forward with walking and running, there’s not enough hamstring strength to off set this, and eventually someone plants a foot wrong and POP.

    Re. military presses- the glenohumeral joint is in its closed packed position (90 degrees of both abduction and external rotation) and you’re adding weight to it. In other words, the joint is in its most vulnerable position and you’re then creating extra stress on it. So many better exercises for the delts. Many coaches (ie, Joe DeFranco, Eric Cressey) don’t use OHP because of this.
    Donít chase the 1%, there is no magic training routine or diet thatís going to provide any measurable results over the basic principles for getting huge and strong: Train heavy, eat and sleep more.

  6. #6
    M&S Elite Member TASan's Avatar
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    Default

    I see your point regarding quad work at the expense of hamstring work. How about dropping the lunges and doing Nordic hamstrings in its place?

    Would you add lateral cable raises to the upper body days or exchange one of the exercises for it? It's not exactly a very demanding movement, so I might as well add it?
    <-- If anyone is helpful, be sure to click the star in the bottom left corner and spread some REPS!

    B.Sc. in Sport Science with specialisation in Physical Activity and Health
    Certified Personal Trainer

  7. #7
    Moderator EKnight's Avatar
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    Nordic’s would be fine.

    Laterals are fine to add IMO. Would use DBs, personally, but I don’t think it makes a huge difference.
    Donít chase the 1%, there is no magic training routine or diet thatís going to provide any measurable results over the basic principles for getting huge and strong: Train heavy, eat and sleep more.

  8. #8
    M&S Elite Member TASan's Avatar
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    For anyone interested, I have decided to go for this variant

    Sumo Deadlifts: 3-4X6-8
    Nordic Hamstrings: 3-4X6-8
    Bent Knee Calf Raise-variation: 3-4X6-8
    Leg Press Low-ish Feet: 2-3X10-12
    Straight Leg Calf Raise: 2-3X10-12
    Lying Leg Curl: 2-3X10-12

    Sunday - Upper
    Flat Bench Press: 3-4X6-8
    Weighted Pull-ups: 3-4X6-8
    Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 2-3X10-12
    Seated Cable Row: 2-3X10-12
    Triceps: 1-2X12-15
    Face-pulls: 1-2X12-15
    Lateral Cable Raise: 1-2x12-15
    Biceps: 1-2X12-15

    Monday - Lower
    Front Squat-variation: 3-4X6-8
    Romanian Deadlifts: 3-4X6-8
    Leg Press High-ish Feet: 2-3X10-12
    Lying Leg Curls: 2-3X10-12
    Straight Leg Calf Raise: 3-4X6-8
    Bent Knee Calf Raise-variation: 2-3X10-12

    Tuesday - Upper
    Seated Cable Row: 3-4X6-8
    Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 3-4X6-8
    Lat Pulldown: 2-3X10-12
    Flat Bench Press: 2-3X10-12
    Face-pulls: 1-2X12-15
    Triceps: 1-2X12-15
    Lateral Cable Raise: 1-2x12-15
    Biceps: 1-2X12-15
    <-- If anyone is helpful, be sure to click the star in the bottom left corner and spread some REPS!

    B.Sc. in Sport Science with specialisation in Physical Activity and Health
    Certified Personal Trainer

 

 

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